Outer Limits 4x4 Board

This could end up being a locked thread with everyone on the bus , but.
Podge has said
"If you know how to drive you don't need anything other than the original Suzuki diffs"
I personaly don't think he is right, but I also don't think there is a correct answer what ever works for you baby.

If you vote you must qualify your vote with a statment suporting the option you chose.
Peter.

i'll us the stock stuff for the fact that they fit and can be replaced without any problems. but you need to lock the diffs or you ain't going to get where

i voted other depends on the size tire you are using and if your using it in a high traction ot low traction enviroment


please keep this to tech cause id like to use this

There will not be a right answer as it's horses for courses........but if the topic of larger diffs under a Sierra was discussed twenty years ago the you'd been banished from Suzuki circles and that is probably where my attitude comes from. I am up with the times and acknowlege that we've got some great technology within our vehicles today to get us over obstacles with great ease, which in turn encourages us to go on and do harder stuff.

I have a lot of this modern technology within in my Sierra but the Suzuki purist within me just won't allow me to go beyond keeping genuine Suzuki componentry where deemed possible. That sentiment comes from my humble beginnings of driving Sierras and LJ's in the 80's, before even having a licence.

........but do support the sentiment of "it works for you then do it". For me I run 33 JT's and if I break a CV (and I have), I'd prefer to replace it but it's rare to do that. It's just where I prefer to draw the line of the bigger diff aspect. I have seen a couple of guys that I go driving with place the bigger diffs under their vehicles (allowing use of bigger tyres) and I haven't seen those vehicles do anything more than what mine or most other standard diff vehicles can do. The only exception to this is the Pisani vehicle which has EVERYTHING bigger in it, so then it comes down to the set up of the vehicle.

Another aspect of keeping with standard diffs is that my thoughts lie with the fact that the more you modify, the more trouble you can ask for. No matter what your thoughts and intentions, if the job isn't done right then you've just wasted time, money and resources on something that in theory might be good but practice is another. It really takes somebody that knows their shit to get these mods right. Everybody that might attempt a diff replacement or similar will consider that it's done right but reality is.......

well guyz ive been running stock diffs for a looong time and cant say ive had to many dramas with breakages, ive only ever broken 1 cv, and these diffs have been airlocked since they first come out for the zooks, currently im running 32 peddes on it with no major hassles.

Podge wrote: the Suzuki purist within me just won't allow me to go beyond keeping genuine Suzuki componentry where deemed possible.

So this inner Suzuki purist, does he have diff locks or after maket gearing, engine mods or suspention fitted?
Peter.

droopypete wrote:

Podge wrote: the Suzuki purist within me just won't allow me to go beyond keeping genuine Suzuki componentry where deemed possible.

So this inner Suzuki purist, does he have diff locks or after maket gearing, engine mods or suspention fitted?
Peter.

Gee, we've found another topic to have an even greater discussion on, on top of the existing topic and this one's guarranteed to get you nowhere in the way of the right answer.

My sentiments on what a Suzuki purist will most definately not coincide with everybody else's sentiments but if I had to be put to the test then I'd say the true purist is somebody that is somebody that drives a bog standard vehicle off the showroom floor (or at least in the same form) with maybe factory extras. That ain't me, but it is on my mind when modifying my Sierra as to what the limits of keeping it Suzuki are. As soon as you modify or fit a non OE part/accessory, it's past being the purist of Suzuki owners, but we know that we need the mods to enhance offroad ability, so it's a compromise not withstanding how much of a challenge it is to keep as much of your vehicle original.

Podge wrote:
My sentiments on what a Suzuki purist will most definately not coincide with everybody else's sentiments but if I had to be put to the test then I'd say the true purist is somebody that is somebody that drives a bog standard vehicle off the showroom floor (or at least in the same form) with maybe factory extras. That ain't me, but it is on my mind when modifying my Sierra as to what the limits of keeping it Suzuki are. As soon as you modify or fit a non OE part/accessory, it's past being the purist of Suzuki owners, but we know that we need the mods to enhance offroad ability, so it's a compromise not withstanding how much of a challenge it is to keep as much of your vehicle original.

Yes I agree completly, so what is if people are breaking stock diffs on a regular basis what grounds could there be agianst "beefing up"?
Peter.
ps sorry about the delay in my posts but I am playing Xbox with my son at the same time

droopypete wrote:

Podge wrote:
My sentiments on what a Suzuki purist will most definately not coincide with everybody else's sentiments but if I had to be put to the test then I'd say the true purist is somebody that is somebody that drives a bog standard vehicle off the showroom floor (or at least in the same form) with maybe factory extras. That ain't me, but it is on my mind when modifying my Sierra as to what the limits of keeping it Suzuki are. As soon as you modify or fit a non OE part/accessory, it's past being the purist of Suzuki owners, but we know that we need the mods to enhance offroad ability, so it's a compromise not withstanding how much of a challenge it is to keep as much of your vehicle original.

Yes I agree completly, so what is if people are breaking stock diffs on a regular basis what grounds could there be agianst "beefing up"?
Peter.
ps sorry about the delay in my posts but I am playing Xbox with my son at the same time

Depends what you call "on a regular basis". I'd be viewing what the set up of the vehicle ie. tyres etc and/or what was on the market to counteract the breakages or even if have the right vehicle for your use......and your thoughts on the same question?

I am in Vic and we have diferent terrain to other states, down here a 33" tyre can survive quite well on a locked and geared zook with a 1600, if driven responsably, if we had more high traction surfaces like rock I would suspect that I would have to greatly adjust my driving style, upgrade my running gear or be prepared to work on my car a lot.
If someone was running say a 35" with power and gears on rock then I would think Hilux diffs would be a good idea in the strength dept, (remember we are talking about strength at the moment not the stability that the extra width gives, ot the loss of ground clearance that the larger centre takes away).
I have a modified sierra and love it, having said that I can remember when it was stock with only small muddies and a welded rear and it was not much less fun than what I have now
Peter.

droopypete wrote:This could end up being a locked thread with everyone on the bus

So think about what your going to post up guys and don't turn the thread to shyte.

That said I love driving my modified zook, twin lockers and all that. But i also had a lot of fun when my zook was only slightly modified.

OTHER.....

I had NT diffs with 5.12's both locked.....although they are fun, they are damn scary at the same time....Tis why now i have toy diffs

As for 'non suzuki' diffs under a zook.....
PROS:
more width
stronger axles (in some cases)
stronger CV's (as above)
coils (possibly for some)
disc brake rear (for some)

CONS:
more expensive to changeover
bigger tyres make for breaking more sh*t
legalities

i voted stock, mainly cause i'm a bit of a purist as pode put it...
I am at being 100% suzuki. Ok so i only run standard 27 but i really never go anywhere that requires anything more. i don't like being bounced around for 4 hours on a rocky pass... i'm all for the sand dunes and snow drifts

I think you needed to make this Poll a little more obvious as to what you were asking. I beleive most would be voting as to what Diff they allready have rather than what diff they beleive is a better set up.

There is no way that any Zook is better off with the Weak stock diffs.

There is no way that any Zook is better off with the Weak stock diffs.

zook diffs are fairly narrow so they can fit between rocks that wider diffed veihilcs would need to go over. they can also fit between trees and in tighter places then zooks wiff biger difs. they are also lighter so less wieght on sand and mud. and less weight when recovering.

you say there is "no way"....there is advantages to bigger wider diffs and to stock zook ones.

superzuki wrote:
zook diffs are fairly narrow so they can fit between rocks that wider diffed veihilcs would need to go over. they can also fit between trees and in tighter places then zooks wiff biger difs. they are also lighter so less wieght on sand and mud. and less weight when recovering.

you say there is "no way"....there is advantages to bigger wider diffs and to stock zook ones.

a few inches width squeezing between rock isnt goin to help

they can also fit between trees?
obviously u must just bush bash and not go on tracks?

lighter? its the lowest thing why would u want light there
that is one of the main benifits to bigger diffs the weight ull be suprised how much more stable it actually makes them

superzuki wrote:

There is no way that any Zook is better off with the Weak stock diffs.

zook diffs are fairly narrow so they can fit between rocks that wider diffed veihilcs would need to go over. they can also fit between trees and in tighter places then zooks wiff biger difs. they are also lighter so less wieght on sand and mud. and less weight when recovering.

you say there is "no way"....there is advantages to bigger wider diffs and to stock zook ones.

Ahhh ok so what your saying is if you drive around all the obsticals then stock zook diffs are better. I understand now And as for less weight when recovering i can understand that as well because i have had to recover a few Stock Zooks because they Broke Axle components trying to drive the hard line

RUFF wrote: There is no way that any Zook is better off with the Weak stock diffs.

Sorry RUFF but I disagree with you there, you can't say,
"There is no way that any Zook is better off with the Weak stock diffs"
because I believe I am better of with Sierra diffs,
if I wasn't I would have fitted the Toy ones in the back yard years ago.


The extra diff clearance I have over Hilux axles is something I want to hang on to, it is also the main reason I went SPOA (to move all that shit to above the axle tube and out of my way) sure a toy diff can be shaved but so to can a zook,
I will not argue that the hilux diffs don't have many benifits, they are stronger, but I have not had a problem with strength (as yet, 5 years ) and the extra width and weight would be a plus as well, the toy axle tubes are tougher and take a weld better, it is easier to find second hand beadlocks for 6 stud than 5, same goes for second hand lockers and such, histeer is available at KMart and you have a wider choice of ratio's.
But not all serious 4 wheel drivers rockcrawl.
Peter.

droopypete wrote:
Sorry RUFF but I disagree with you there, you can't say,
"There is no way that any Zook is better off with the Weak stock diffs"
because I believe I am better of with Sierra diffs,
if I wasn't I would have fitted the Toy ones in the back yard years ago.


The extra diff clearance I have over Hilux axles is something I want to hang on to, it is also the main reason I went SPOA (to move all that shit to above the axle tube and out of my way) sure a toy diff can be shaved but so to can a zook,
I will not argue that the hilux diffs don't have many benifits, they are stronger, but I have not had a problem with strength (as yet, 5 years ) and the extra width and weight would be a plus as well, the toy axle tubes are tougher and take a weld better, it is easier to find second hand beadlocks for 6 stud than 5, same goes for second hand lockers and such, histeer is available at KMart and you have a wider choice of ratio's.
But not all serious 4 wheel drivers rockcrawl.
Peter.

I never said a word about rock crawling Its Simple. They are stronger in every way and have more variety of Gear Ratios and parts are much easier to come by. And as you know the clearence issue is a moot point if you shave the Hilux Diff. They then have just as much clearence as a stock zook diff. They are also a very simple conversion.

And again i never said a Word about Rock Crawling. I dont even know where that comment comes from

And its not that you are Better Off with Zook diffs its just you have not needed anything more.

No, I am better of with Suzuki diffs, as I said in my previous post,
"The extra diff clearance I have over Hilux axles is something I want to hang on to"
Peter.

well i gues bigger diffs are beter then. but ill stick to my weak zook diffs cos im tuff and i cant aford lux diffs

droopypete wrote:No, I am better of with Suzuki diffs, as I said in my previous post,
"The extra diff clearance I have over Hilux axles is something I want to hang on to"
Peter.

As you allready stated Hilux Diffs can be set up to have the same clearence as Stock Zook diffs so your no better off except in the Pocket.

If you dont need anymore strength for what you are driving then you may as well stay with zook diffs but if your breaking anything then you are better off upgrading.

Im with podge, stock is fine, I ran 36' TSL's for a while on stock diffs, you know when your pushing them too hard, you get that sick feeling.
you have to love and respect your stock axels, I dont think this is a bad thing, just makes u a better driver.

If you want to dish out the hate, bigger is better
My MQ diffs are way strong, but i miss the lightness that comes with driving a zook.

If you could build a zook way light then I think stock axels would be way strong enough for rec use.


Mock

RUFF wrote: As you allready stated Hilux Diffs can be set up to have the same clearence as Stock Zook diffs so your no better off except in the Pocket.

I also said that Suzuki diffs can be shaved, giving zook diffs the advantage agian, (but we are talking millimetres here )
Peter.

I bet mine are smaller than everyone elses

Haven't broken any axles with my 1.o litre diffs.
But maybe I am soft core

diff clearance and lack of money is my reason for stock 1.0 diffs.
Nobody else wants them, so they are cheap and plentiful.

That and the availability of 4:9's and 4:6's cheap as.

Horses fer courses. Anything goes.
But the person behind the wheel does influence direction of any build.

christover

RUFF wrote:If you dont need anymore strength for what you are driving then you may as well stay with zook diffs but if your breaking anything then you are better off upgrading.

Yes that is right, but that is also what I said in my 3rd post here.
Don't get me wrong I am not a "purist", I like my zook, but I have no problems substituting a zook part for a better one if the need should arise, my tailshafts are a good example, blowing a rear uni at night, half way up the steps at Toolangi and coming down backwards out of control is not my idea of fun, exciting? sure, character building? definatly, but not fun, so Toyota drive shafts were fitted, no more problems
Peter.

droopypete wrote:

RUFF wrote:If you dont need anymore strength for what you are driving then you may as well stay with zook diffs but if your breaking anything then you are better off upgrading.

Yes that is right, but that is also what I said in my 3rd post here.
Don't get me wrong I am not a "purist", I like my zook, but I have no problems substituting a zook part for a better one if the need should arise, my tailshafts are a good example, blowing a rear uni at night, half way up the steps at Toolangi and coming down backwards out of control is not my idea of fun, exciting? sure, character building? definatly, but not fun, so Toyota drive shafts were fitted, no more problems
Peter.

good point, BUT i think axel wrap and slight airbornness had a big influance on that busted uni, If your car had a ladder bar or was spua, it probly wouldnt have busted.

I dont think its how much you push the drive line as a driver so much, but how much it is allready pussed ie. spoa

I Vote Zook Diff as i was told if i went toyota diffs i would need a 37" tyres to get the same diff cleaance as a stock zook one!!

Thats a good enough reason for me to stay with the original package

I vote Horses for Courses. No vote. With my SWB, i had a Vit 1.6 EFI,32 ETs, locked & SPOA. All zook. Only ever broke one CV, & 2 tailshafts (Due to runnin 6/10 rear springs & carryin 300kg+, a rear wrap bar shouldve prevented these 2, if fitted). Punished it thoroughly, most weekends & in between for 2 years. Then, after spectating at a comp, decided if i wanted to compete & be somewhat competitive, i needed something longer & stronger. Compared to some these days, id say my LWB is still somewhat tame. Read SIG line for LWB info.

Peter.