Exhaust Options

[Sneezing7]

Well, my Genie extractors arrived from Australia today - so I am quite happy!!

I have been thinking about replacing the rest of the exhaust when I get the extractors fitted - which although the std exhaust is in good condition, i guess upgrading will not hurt.

My question is this: Has any installed a system with no muffler ? if so, how loud is it? From what I can see the current system has only 1 center muffler, and it is very quiet.

Should I be looking at a 2" or 2.5" system?

Also, to avoid going over the rear axel, I am also thinking of having the exhaust end just before the rear wheel arch. Again, has anyone done this and how loud is it? Will my passenger go deaf - with or without a muffler?

Thanks in advance!

[SimplyPV]

sneezing, glad you got ur extractors in. i replaced my cat a few years back due to it being backed up. when i did, i decided to replace the standard muffler with a turbo boss. made a decent amount of noise. then foward to 1.5 years later and an engine swap. took it out for a desert run and the muffler fell off. been running it with no muffler since. i highly suggest do NOT run without the muffler. it is VERY loud, and makes the engine sound like complete shit! not sure what you have avialable to you but if you are seeking loudness, go with a straight through type muffler, makes it sound much better and is pretty loud. a flowmaster will give you a very nice growl for your buck. i wouldnt go any higher than 2" in dai. for your exaust. you still need to retain some backpressure. only time you want COMPLETE removal of backpressure is if ur running a turbo on really high boost. such as past the 18psi mark.

[murcod]

Mine's loud with a single three chamber muffler- hate to think how loud it would be with none! Straight through mufflers are also very loud (eg. Magnaflows) something like PV suggested, the Flowmaster, should be good.

There's a few threads on exhaust systems. I'd recommend 2" piping, some people run 2.5" but that's huge for a 1.6l engine and could affect torque at low revs.

[senergy]

i would also suggest having the exhaust exit from behind the passenger rear wheel rather then straight through to the end of the car. I know a few people on here have it like that.

I got stuck in a ditch last night and couldnt start the car due to the exhaust be blocked, but if it was behind the wheel it would have been a different story.

[RockyF75]

i would also suggest having the exhaust exit from behind the passenger rear wheel rather then straight through to the end of the car. I know a few people on here have it like that.

I got stuck in a ditch last night and couldnt start the car due to the exhaust be blocked, but if it was behind the wheel it would have been a different story.

, i went to menai few months back, and ripped the end of the pipe off on a rock climb, so now its exactly there, behind the real wheel ... but is this legal?? i was contemplating fixin it but i know i will probly just rip it off again as it gets pinned between the tow bar and the ground

[JrZook]

i would also suggest having the exhaust exit from behind the passenger rear wheel rather then straight through to the end of the car. I know a few people on here have it like that.

I got stuck in a ditch last night and couldnt start the car due to the exhaust be blocked, but if it was behind the wheel it would have been a different story.

, i went to menai few months back, and ripped the end of the pipe off on a rock climb, so now its exactly there, behind the real wheel ... but is this legal?? i was contemplating fixin it but i know i will probly just rip it off again as it gets pinned between the tow bar and the ground

Exhaust must exit on the drivers side and must be behind the most rear opening window, to be legal.

[Spartacus]

u sure?? my rocky exits out passenger side beside mudflaps...
came this way from factory an runnin extractors, 2" zaust, up higher
but replicated factory positioning

just thought id post an opposite

[Sneezing7]

Great!! Thanks for all the advise guys!!

I think running a reverse flow muffler, with 2" mild steel piping will be the best option for me.

I started the car up last nights with only the extractors on, and holy crap it was LOUD!! I don't think I will be doing that again!

[SimplyPV]

I started the car up last nights with only the extractors on, and holy crap it was LOUD!! I don't think I will be doing that again!

thought that was loud?

wait til you have her screamin at 6000 rpms with no muffler... fark now THATS loud.

[RockyF75]

u sure?? my rocky exits out passenger side beside mudflaps...
came this way from factory an runnin extractors, 2" zaust, up higher
but replicated factory positioning

just thought id post an opposite

yeah, mines the same, and i havent modded it, dont think the preivos owners woulda either, the last bit about exiting past last window sounds about right.... which is good for me

[FROZY]

I have Extractors fitted with 2" Stainless steel from the cat back to a high flow lukey stainless muffler then 2" stainless straight through to the back. I found the gap between the leaf springs and the fuel tank is quite small and the pipe tends to knock on the bottom bolt of the U bracket on the leaf. I think i would rather it turned out over the leaf and went out the side behind the wheel like the origional exhaust does. It would sacrifice slight horsies i guess but the knocking is a pain. She sounds pretty mean though

[Sneezing7]

It is interesting to note that most of you have cat converters on your cars.

I had a look under mine, and all I have is one muffler box and thats it. Originally I thought that the previous owner got rid of the cat, but after checking out a few other Fezz's parked on the side of the road (ps: I must of looked very dodgy looking under strangers cars) they all seem not to have cat's.

Different laws I guess

[murcod]

Your's is the HD-C carby engine isn't it?

Most likely only the HD-E use catalytic convertors due to the mixtures having to be strictly maintained for the cat to work.

[tufferoza]

i need to build a new system for the turbo conversion. though now that i am moving back to WA next month i dont have time to finish the turbo conversion before i go.
but i am still doing the exhaust as i am not going to listen to that damn whistle all the way over there!!

so far i have bought a Lukey 2" stainless Ultraflo muffler (same style i put on my Mr2) and 2" x 18" Lukey resonator (hotdog). these will be ideal with the turbo, but i hope because i am staying at a medium 2" size pipe with the combination of the resonator and the muffler it will not be too loud while still being NA, but produce a nice deep note. i'll still use my standard manifold as that will be replaced with the turbo manifold once i'm set up in WA.





i just need to get me some 2" pipe and bend/weld it all up before i leave.
hopeing the free'er flowing system will help with the running of the car as i'll either be towing my Mr2 on a car trailer or a 7x5' trailer full of my crap over (which ever one i decide not to send on transport).

[murcod]

Is it just the photos or do both of those mufflers (actually they're more resonators I guess?) reduce in size substantially internally?

I've got Hurricane extractors, 2" stainless pipe, the standard factory cat, a flex join and a 2.25" Marathon three chamber muffler (ie. not straight through) and mine's loud. You'll be struggling to fit the mufflers underneath, I was originally going to have a straight though resonator as well- but there wasn't anywhere to fit it!

For towing I'd be inclined to stick with the standard system. The better torque down low would be more useful IMHO than top end power.

[tufferoza]

the internal diameters are the same 2" all the way through (probably an optical illusion from the pics, specialy because of the internal design on the resonator).

the straight through stainless muffler has perforated holes in the inner tube with a glass packed outer casing. i have a 3" round version of this on my Mr2 and it's a very nice muffler.
http://www.lukey.com.au/default.asp?pag ... ENT&sid=63

the resonator is of simular design, inner tube is perforated but the perforated holes are bent out and in a slight spiral pattern (i should of taken the pic of it from the other end) these bent out holes are to face into the oncoming exhaust gasses, it too is pasked with glass pack material. even though it's straight through it's supposed to help quieten the exhaust and produce a deep note instead of the raspy exhausts sounds you hear some rice burners with big fart can on the street have when used infront of a qaulity muffler.
http://www.lukey.com.au/default.asp?pag ... ENT&sid=67
i've talked to the Lukey rep when he came into work and read through the tech pages in the Lukey muffler book and beleive i have deffinatly made the correct choice in muffler and resonator.


i agree low down torque will be better while towing, though i do not feel i am going to lose too much of that with this system while still NA. i will still use the original section that goes after the muffler over the rear diff out the back (flare it out to 2"), the smaller tail section will help reduce any unwanted noise there may be (though i dont think it's going to be that loud being only 2", cant wait to hear it) and might produce a wee amount of back pressure.
i am not going listen to that damn whistle all the way to WA.

i have trail fitted both these under the feroza and have no fitment trouble.

[murcod]

Must be a tight fit under there with two. I think the problem with mine was partly due to the flex join having to go after the cat.

[tufferoza]

cat? what cat...

how come you put a flex pipe in yours?

[SimplyPV]

cat? what cat...

how come you put a flex pipe in yours?

to prevent the headers from cracking. thats primarily why the factory ones cracked. not to mention the fact that they are cast iron so they are very brittle. but still, why spend all that $$ on a nice upgrade, and take the chance of it crackin?

[murcod]

cat? what cat...

how come you put a flex pipe in yours?

Jeez, you're gamer than me putting that on a public forum!!! It's not worth the risk removing it IMHO- there's been talk for ages about roadside sniffers being introduced that can detect that sort of thing. Also big fines for the exhaust shop that does it and the vehicle owner IIRC.

The flex pipe helps prevent cracking and manifold studs breaking (I had one broken when I went to fit my extractors), plus helps to reduce noise and vibrations transmitted into the cabin. Flex pipes are more important in FWD (with east west engines), but don't hurt in RWD set ups.

[tufferoza]

wouldnt that brace that holds the exhaust pipe to the gearbox hold the first section with the rock of the engine not causeing stress on the manifold?
i've always been told that the side to side torque movement of a north/south mounted engine doesnt need a flex pipe as the exhaust system will rock on the mounting rubbers/hangers with the engine fine.
not like say the system on my Mr2 with a east/west that will rock against the exhaust system and needs a flex pipe.


anyway, i got rather pissed off at a stereo install i was doing for a mate this afternoon and made the new exhaust system. i cheated and used the fisrt section off the manifold and the small curved peice in the middle. need to get another flared bit of pipe done so i can put the rear section onto the muffler. it sounds very nice so far.

[murcod]

wouldnt that brace that holds the exhaust pipe to the gearbox hold the first section with the rock of the engine not causeing stress on the manifold?

I think that's what's its there for, but I'd rather not take the risk. My back manifold stud was partially sheared when I took the old manifold off. I thought that the nut was loose, but ended up with the nut and last section of the stud coming off together! The stud was rusted where it was sheared, so had been hanging like that for a long time.

Luckily the flange on the extractors is thinner and there was enough length left on the stud to do it up. Have to be lucky some of the time.

The motors do move a lot, so the flex section would help out and relieve strain/ leverage on the studs. A flex section is only around $30 retail too.

[tufferoza]

all the flex pipes i have sold through work (and the one i used on my Mr2's system when i made it) didnt give side ways twist, which is what the flex pipe would need to do with a north/south engine rock??.

but hey, if it's working for you and saving your manifolds and studs from cracking or breaking..

[murcod]

If you don't want to put one in then don't!

There is a lot more engine movement than simply a bit of rotational twist on the exhaust. The engine torque causes it to try and rotate around the crankshaft, and this rocks the engine back and forth on the mounts as you accelerate/ decelerate. This means the exhaust system will also be subjected to up and down movement because it is hanging off the side of the engine.

A flex section after the gearbox mount will help relieve strain by allowing the front exhaust section (that's bolted solidly to the engine) to move up and down without the rear section resisting the movement by levering against the gearbox mount.

[Sneezing7]

Just an update from me:

The extractors and exhaust are now on my Fezz, and my god, what a difference it has made!!

Most importantly that bloody annoying whistle noise is gone (mostly heard when cruising on the freeway, and definately most audible when going through tunnels).

Apart from that though, the car feels as if it has more low down torque, and not as restricted in the top end of the revs.

In the end the system was made up from: Genie Mild steel Extractors, 2" stainless piping (mild steel would of been fine, but I got a deal), 1 Straight through muffler, and a nice finishing tip (just for looks!!). Not including extractors, the system cost me 100CYP (about 270 AUD) - which I thought was a very good price.

Sound wise, it sounds a bit farty when driving in the low revs around suburbia, but as soon as you hit about 4k, the sound note changes into a nice tune!

Next step is to install a flex pipe, just to avoid any potential damage that may occur.

[murcod]

That's an excellent price! Do you know what brand / model muffler it is they fitted?

[tufferoza]

In the end the system was made up from: Genie Mild steel Extractors, 2" stainless piping (mild steel would of been fine, but I got a deal), 1 Straight through muffler, and a nice finishing tip (just for looks!!). Not including extractors, the system cost me 100CYP (about 270 AUD) - which I thought was a very good price.

indeed, great price.

Most importantly that bloody annoying whistle noise is gone (mostly heard when cruising on the freeway, and definately most audible when going through tunnels).

i too am enjoying very much not having that damn whistle anymore, it's only taken me over a year to get rid of it.

[Pommie B*stard]

Hiya fellas,

Been reading this thread with interest.
I'm on the lookout for a set of extractors for my '96 UK model (EFi with cat).
I read some alarming stuff about MRT so will probably avoid theirs.
Do you know what other brands are available and any dealers that ship
worldwide cos I'm in England?
Any recommendations appreciated.

Thanks,
Jon.

[murcod]

If you log onto the Aussie Ebay site www.ebay.com.au then there is a company selling the Genies for around AUS$310 . I think that might be where Sneezing7 got his shipped from?

Failing that there is another place that has shipped some Hurricanes to the USA that I know of.

You're right hand drive in the UK IIRC? Otherwise you may have fittiment problems.

[Sneezing7]

Murcod:

NOt sure about the model number mate.... I will check in the next few days and get back to you

Tufferoza:

It's great being able to now drive down the street without having every dog howl when you go past.

Pommie B*stard:

I got my extractors from off of Ebay for a good price. The Ebay seller is a helpful chap, and I am happy to recommend him to you. As murcod mentioned, I paid 310 for them, and express postage (all-be-it that the item is bulky), was not overly expensive.