More torque from Toyota V8's

[grazza]

Just looking for some advice on getting more torque from Toyota V8's.
This may apply to the 4.0, 4.3 & 4.7L V8's.

I have a 1UZ-FE motor in mine and I am pretty happy with it, but a bit more torque would be nice. The motor is currently running OK but I am looking at changes after a big trip next year. The hard part is now done, meaning the engine, gearbox and wiring. A swap to a different Toyo V8 should not be much of a big deal.

So far the options I have are:

Different computer like Motec = big $$$
Change exhaust cam timing = vernier gears (+maybe ECU)
Supercharge = $6000 min + intercool
Turbo or twin turbo = ECU + $$$ + intercool
Fit 4.7L motor, less HP but better bottom end torque
Fit 4.3L VVti motor

I dont have a price on a 3UZ-FE but the 1UZ-FE's can be had for as little as $900.

Would like to hear what other Toyo V8 owners think.

And I have no desire changing from a Toyota V8....

[mico]

you could try looking here http://www.lextreme.com these guys are the best people to talk to about it

[-Nemesis-]

ONe way would be to restrict the exhaust a little, you'll lose some top end, but it will force the torque down low.

Also, one idea I keep toying with in my head, is to adapt a Toyota SC14 supercharger. These can be had for about $3-400 from an importer and are good for 10psi or so boost standard.....

A bit cheaper than the $6000 big blower kits for similar boost....

[De-lux]

Hey Nemesis,

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a SC14 from a AE86 sprinter?
they are used to power a 1.8L engine and i dont think they will do much on a 4L V8, unless you got about four of them


offtopic, but it makes me laugh at how a nissan driver says:

And I have no desire changing from a Toyota V8....

aaahh... Tojo sure is the best!!

[De-lux]

after a wee bit of googling, i answered my own question:

This is a SC14 blower off of a Toyota 1GG-ZE, a supercharged 2 litre 24 valve twin cam engine

[ISUZUROVER]

More restrictive exhaust may help a bit.

Are there heads with smaller valves than yours? That and/or exhaust will both help - at the enpense of some top end.

What about different cams? Is there a cam with a lower torque curve?

The toyo V8 with the longest stroke should have the best low-down torque.

[grazza]

aaahh... Tojo sure is the best!!

...because I have already spent a small fortune getting the gearbox adapter right...

And when I started this project the Nissan VH45 was extremely rare and expensive.

If money was not object, I would have one of the Toureg V10 diesels...

I will call my exhaust guy and see what he thinks about resticting the exhaust, which sounds wierd to me...

[up2nogood]

Cams and timing mods are all that will really make a difference. Restricting the exhaust will only be at the expense of top end power.

The Toyota V8 is not the best choice for the same reason Chev dropped the Lotus designed quad cam engine in the Corvette and went back to the old dinosaur 350....

Much less bottom end than the old push rod jobby.

But now you've got it in there 'spose you'll have some experimenting to do!

[grazza]

Toyota V8 engine specs:

1UZ-FE 89-95+ 4.0L 256@5400 261@4600 87.5 82.5 10.0:1 JP version
1UZ-FE 89-96 4.0L 250@5600 261@4400 87.5 82.5 10.0:1 US, SAE net
1UZ-FE 89-95+ 4.0L 242@5400 261@4400 87.5 82.5 10.0:1 DIN
1UZ-FE 95-97+ 4.0L 265@5400 269@4600 87.5 82.5 10.4:1 JP
1UZ-FE 97- 4.0L 300@6000 315@4000 87.5 82.5 10.4:1 VVT-i US GS400
1UZ-FE 97- 4.0L 290@6000 315@4000 87.5 82.5 10.4:1 VVT-i US LS400
2UZ-FE 98- 4.7L 233 311@3600 LandCruiser
3UZ-FE 00- 4.3L 290@5600 320@3400 LS430 VVTi
3UZ-FE 00- 4.3L 300@5600 325@3400 GS430 VVTi

1UZ-FE 4.0L 6-bolt mains, aluminium block

2UZ-FE 4.7L 82% torque available at 1200 rpm, 2-bolt mains, iron block
Longer inlet runners, different exhaust manifold required.

I am pretty sure my motor is the 261 ft-lb version.
So big torque increase to fit one of the later motors such as the 2UZ-FE or 3UZ-FE. I imagine the 3UZ will be a little better on fuel.
The 2UZ-FE would be heavier, but better parts availablility. Will see what these engines are worth - this may be my best option.

[up2nogood]

You could get some custom cams made up?

Although with four of them this could get dear.......

[grazza]

$1450 from Tighe Cams, and need a different computer, unless my Unichip will do the job.

[slosh]

You could get some custom cams made up?

Although with four of them this could get dear.......

I read a while back on the lextreme forum that a moderator had new cam profile developed, but as said there's four of them so cost was in thousands. There mustn't be too many around if he went to the trouble.

www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3326

edit: this was supposed to be a good grind if u want to add supercharger later as well.

From what I've read I'd stick with the standard motor. At least it is OK on fuel. If I were chasing better torque and the cheapest option was a few grand maybe selling ur conversion and going chev old or new would be cheaper.

[-Nemesis-]

Hey Nemesis,

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a SC14 from a AE86 sprinter?
they are used to power a 1.8L engine and i dont think they will do much on a 4L V8, unless you got about four of them

Castlemaine Rod Shop sell a supercharger kit for the Commo 3800 V6 using the SC14, so I figured on a 4000cc 8 it would be enough to up the bottom end significantly....

It's cheap too:

http://www.rodshop.com.au/superchargerholdv6.htm

[HotFourOk]

Hey Nemesis,

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't a SC14 from a AE86 sprinter?
they are used to power a 1.8L engine and i dont think they will do much on a 4L V8, unless you got about four of them

Yeh, i will....

The SC12 was fitted to AE86 models which had the 4AGZE 1.6L Twin Cam engine.

As said, the SC14 is off the 6 cylinder, 2.0L 24v 1GGZE found in GX71 models.

And a lot of folk strap them to thier commodores which are 3.8L so there must be some benefit there...

Adelaide Jap stock them for around $350.

[grazza]

Asked the Rodshop. They reckon no way will this work on a 4.0L V8.
Have to use a bigger supercharger.

Maybe the cams are worth a look.

Also I wonder if the inlet manifold length can be treaked as this seems to be a function of low torque motors.

[bru21]

mate we have a 100 series with the 4.7 it is all torque. i know that the gearing is way low like 2600 at 100kph, but i can still lug it in 5th around 90 degree corners going way slow. it then pulls fairly well out. i have never driven something like this before. it must have 4x the torque of the au falcon we have even though in theory a 6 of similar capacity makes more torque. both are manuals

cheers bru

[-Nemesis-]

I'll quote a post of interest written by ttcelica in my build thread at 4WDM. It's not overly torque related, but I think he knows his stuff:

Oh, and steer clear of the SC14, they dont flow enough air to warrant the trouble. the biggest restriction on a 1UZ is the inlet runners, they pinch right down at the entry into the head. Best thing for this? 2 x sets of 4AG 20V quad throttle setup, simple ecu like a Microtech LTX-12 and adjustable cam gears. It will REALLY come alive then, think 250-260kw @ flywheel (no, im not joking, it DOES make that much difference!). Just make sure you keep the inlet runners short to keep the low down torque up

[slowhilux]

Hmmm, i wonder who wrote that, brian??

[-Nemesis-]

Hilux? What the...... Was that before the 80?

[F'n_Rover]

Oh, and steer clear of the SC14, they dont flow enough air to warrant the trouble. the biggest restriction on a 1UZ is the inlet runners, they pinch right down at the entry into the head. Best thing for this? 2 x sets of 4AG 20V quad throttle setup, simple ecu like a Microtech LTX-12 and adjustable cam gears. It will REALLY come alive then, think 250-260kw @ flywheel (no, im not joking, it DOES make that much difference!). Just make sure you keep the inlet runners short to keep the low down torque up

I thought that the longer the runners the better for low end torque.

I6 - manifold

[-Nemesis-]

Interestingly enough, the runners on the V6 appear to be pretty darn long in the 4Runners. And it's renowned for being a non torquey motor down low....

[MacroP]

Can't you just change your diff ratio's?.

Probably the quickest and cheapest considering the 1UZ intake system in already designed for maximum torque down low not top end power. All those mods mentioned will release (much) more power up top that's all. A nice whipple supercharger(or Eaton *shudder*) mounted on top will be really the only other option for better bottom end. SC12 and SC14's are WAY too small. You need and supercharger with a displacenent of 2.6Litres/rev plus. SC14 = 1.4L/rev. Commodore SC(Eaton M90) is 90 cubic inches = 1.5L/rev. Expext a few thou there though. Lot's of customising.

Having said that, quad throttle bodies and/or 4 new custom cams ain't cheap either. Either of those won't fix your prooblem much either.

Changing the diffs will only reduce your cruising fuel ecomony but that will be pretty crap anyway, a bit more fuel won't hurt. At least with a ratio change the results are much more apparent then changing a few intake bits. There's plenty of rev range(and plenty of power) in the donk to make up for shorter gearing.

[ISUZUROVER]

Are you running a manual or auto?

Another option (if you have a manual) to increase torque is to increase the flywheel mass - either by fitting a heavier flywheel or by bolting (balanced) plates to the flywheel (if there is room).

This may reduce your acceleration slightly.

[grazza]

I am running the Nissan manual, which put a lot of load on the motor compared to the tiny Toyota auto. Using the Nissan flywheel.

I have been thinking of a lighter flywheel for road use...

I have reduction gears in the transfer case, so its great in low range but not so good on the road.

I have made some enquiries about the other motors and I think it will be very hard to get hold of a 2UZ-FE or 3UZ-FE since not many were used in Japan, unlike the 1UZ.

Maybe the USA would be a better source but I imagine these engines are popular for swaps over there, unlike Japan.

[GRINCH]

if your prepared to spend the money get an aftermarket ecu and run multiple coil packs. i'm running a wolf ecu with falcon coil packs on an rb30 patrol and getting 145hp and 870nm of torque at the wheels. cost me around $1600 for computer, coil pack, plugs and dyno tune. but i did the wiring of the loom and initial set up of ecu witch saved a few $$$$$$$.
mates in the stages of putting the 4.0l in a hilux which will be running the same set up as mine, will let you know how it goes, but it will probly be about 2010 before it starts at the rate hes going

[-Nemesis-]

870Nm?

The FPV F6 Typhoon is Australias most powerful (torque wise) factory built car, with a whopping 550Nm.... And that couples it to nearly 400HP all at the fly.

Did you have a typo?

[awill4x4]

I'm pretty sure chassis dyno's show a torque figure as "tractive newtons" there is no realistic conversion to show either foot/ pounds or newton/ metres of torque which are derived at the flywheel.
Regards Andrew.

[GRINCH]

no typo, the read out was in ft/pd around 640ft/pd. brothers hilux running a turbo supra motor is putting out over 1200nm and mates turbo 4.2 petrol patrols putting out close to 1500nm.

[patrolmad]

A Toymota engine in a Nissan....that's sacrilege!!!!!!!

[-Nemesis-]

An it's never gone so hard!