Outer Limits 4x4 Board

I want to replace the axles in a prototype vehicle I have. It is based on a Range Rover platform and so far I use the original axles. I have put 24 spline strengthen shafts but I need something stronger.

Two options I am considering are :
1. Toyota 80 series
2. Patrol MK series

I also know that the real axle from a 3.5 Pajero is very strong. But I need to find a matching front.

Can you tell me your opinions on the above, or any other suggestions?

Dude, pretty sure GQ axles are almost a bolt up affair ( at least the front is, the rear needs a bit of welding/moving stuff). Heaps stronger than OE and stronger cvs than 80 series diffs not to mention readily available wheel sizes. 2K or less for a pair. PM GURU or maggot4x4, I think both have done it to theirs IIRC.
Will definitely be putting them on my hangover when I can.

are the 24 spline axles "rover" or are they an aftermarket brand?

have you upgraded the diff center to an ARB or similar?

have you changed the ring and pinion to another ratio?

are you actually breaking axles or something else?

how much does this vehicle way?

there's another option, you can fit toyota hilux and some landcrusier centers into rover housings which gives a few more options to axles and cv's

cheers, Serg

Range Rover has offset diffs front and rear (doesn't it?) Pajero is centred, Patrol rear is centred? Don't know if 80 series diffs are offset enough?

Lockers for the (larger and stronger) Pajero 3.5 rear are hard to come by - ARB don't make one, and aren't planning to.

Don't know if any of this is important to you.

Scott

Read up in the Rover forum about the Toyota diff centre conversion.

You can replace the rover centres with toy centres with axles off the shelf from Jack MacNamara in Melbourne. You can run either rover or toy (longfield ) cvs.

Dave.

NJ SWB wrote:Range Rover has offset diffs front and rear (doesn't it?) Pajero is centred, Patrol rear is centred? Don't know if 80 series diffs are offset enough?

Lockers for the (larger and stronger) Pajero 3.5 rear are hard to come by - ARB don't make one, and aren't planning to.

Don't know if any of this is important to you.

Scott

the 80 is slightly offset, doesn't matter though... i know 2 40 series that are runningthem with standard offset T cases just fine

uninformed wrote:are the 24 spline axles "rover" or are they an aftermarket brand?

have you upgraded the diff center to an ARB or similar?

have you changed the ring and pinion to another ratio?

are you actually breaking axles or something else?

how much does this vehicle way?

there's another option, you can fit toyota hilux and some landcrusier centers into rover housings which gives a few more options to axles and cv's

cheers, Serg

The shafts are from KAM in UK. There is a very good system in the front, which includes a smaller outer shaft that breaks easier than the inner and can be replaced quickly and cheaply. I was in a contest last weekend and it broke (in a case that I don't find it very justifiable for an aftermarket stronger shaft). Noone could beleive that I replaced it in 15 minutes! The problem is that I would prefer to have something that doesn't break, at least not that easlily.

The R&Ps are 4,75 from the same company and the centers are ARBs.

The vehicle is lighter than the original, as the whole body was replaced with a buggy kit. I will try to post a few pics.

NJ SWB wrote:Range Rover has offset diffs front and rear (doesn't it?) Pajero is centred, Patrol rear is centred? Don't know if 80 series diffs are offset enough?

Lockers for the (larger and stronger) Pajero 3.5 rear are hard to come by - ARB don't make one, and aren't planning to.

Don't know if any of this is important to you.

Scott

Yes the RR diffs are on the passenger side. But I don't think this is a problem for the rear, if it is centered.

I have found an axle from a 3,5 Pajero with the factory locker. They sell it for 800 euros, which I think is very reasonable. The gears I can have it with are 4,63 or 4,88. Is it considered stronger than the 80 series axles?

I thought the rover used a weaker version of the Dana 60 in the rear.

The 'big' pajero diff is a 9.5 inch ring gear and supposed to be strong.

The Nissan have 2 main types a h230 and h260 9 inch and 10.5 inch ring gear.
The h260 also has 1.5 37 spline axle, it is one of the strongest diffs you can get that will fit with to many mods.

The Nissan diffs don't have a hand break if that’s an issue.

Have a look at the arb site under there air locker it give some insight in to the common diff around.

Common Dana 60 9.5 ring gear 1.3" 30spl axle
HD Dana 60 9.5 ring gear 1.5" 35 spline axle
Dana 40 8.75 ring gear 1.3" 30spl axle

This is all of the top of my head so could be a little wrong

Eric

It depends on how many K's you do to wether the off set diff is worthwhile or not.

I have GQ's in my Rangie tourer, the are coming out as I am sick of the vibration from the rear end at 100kph, and I have tried everything to fix it. They are being replaced with 80 series diffs.

However, if you only do short trips or comp work, the GQ's would be fine. My GQ's are going in my other rangie that is just a play truck.

Maggot4x4 wrote:It depends on how many K's you do to wether the off set diff is worthwhile or not.

I have GQ's in my Rangie tourer, the are coming out as I am sick of the vibration from the rear end at 100kph, and I have tried everything to fix it. They are being replaced with 80 series diffs.

However, if you only do short trips or comp work, the GQ's would be fine. My GQ's are going in my other rangie that is just a play truck.

I run 80 series diffs in hilux (centred t case). It runs a DC joint at t case and the input flange on the rear diff is parallel with t case input flange, which is what I was told to do. It doesn't vibe bad but you can hear rattles when coasting.

It's annoying enough for me to source a t case with offset rear output when I do engine conversion.

Large Pajero rear diff is 9.5" with 33.5mm and 31 spline axles.
80 Series rear diff is 9.5" (??) 33mm and 30 spline axles.
The main difference is that the 80 Series is a full floater where as the Paj is a semi floater. So the 80 Series axles would probly be stronger overall but they can shear hub bolts but these can be upgraded to 10mm.
The Paj rear diff centre is stronger than a 80 Series IMHO mainly due to the crownwheel thickness (I've seen both).
I spose for a comp truck it will boil down to availability and price and there the Toyo will be better.
But the 3.5 Paj rear end is plenty strong.
The 3.5 Paj rear diffs came in a 4.636 or 4.90 ratio some later models had 4.27.

the weak point in a rover diff is the ring and pinion if you are breaking parts BEFORE these, you have not got the most out of your rover diffs. you can fit longfield or cvunlimited 4340 cv's with 300m cages, run aftermarket shafts, maxi-drive and jacmac, better diff centers, arb, jacmac and maxidrive.

if set up properly you should break ring and pinions first, if this is a problem change the centers to toyota hilux, crusier and now you have a hypoid set up thats stronger than the rover stuff and still have good ground clearence.

i'm guessing your truck is a dakar based kit?

i haven't herd anything that leads me to believe that KAM makes better gear than the others i mentioned

Ashcroft make a aeu2522 replacement cv in cromo.....

don't rule out all your options before changing hole axles

cheers, Serg

uninformed wrote:the weak point in a rover diff is the ring and pinion if you are breaking parts BEFORE these, you have not got the most out of your rover diffs. you can fit longfield or cvunlimited 4340 cv's with 300m cages, run aftermarket shafts, maxi-drive and jacmac, better diff centers, arb, jacmac and maxidrive.

if set up properly you should break ring and pinions first, if this is a problem change the centers to toyota hilux, crusier and now you have a hypoid set up thats stronger than the rover stuff and still have good ground clearence.

i'm guessing your truck is a dakar based kit?

i haven't herd anything that leads me to believe that KAM makes better gear than the others i mentioned

Ashcroft make a aeu2522 replacement cv in cromo.....

don't rule out all your options before changing hole axles

cheers, Serg

Tha R&Ps are quoted as 50% stronger and the halfshafts as 35%. The KAM site is www.kamdiffs.com. The reason of my choice is that I liked the idea of the easy front replacement. Which really works. And the idea is that it should break before anything else, being cheaper and easier to replace. But it may be too weak for this reason and it breaks in cases that it shouldn't. I've been told from the local distributor that we may order them stronger but with the risk that something else brakes instead. I am thinking of trying it and see what happens. When I start to brake R&P's it will mean that my half shafts are strong enough!

I have a Traka based kit, similar to Dakar.

I can't see a point in changing to Toyota centers. I can reather use whole axles instead with stronger shafts. I can wait until the next time something breaks again and see. The thing is that other heavily modified cars use axles like Dana 44 and 60 and GM 12 bolt, either stock or aftermarket like Dynatrak. As the car develops I think I will need something really strong.

xappas wrote:

uninformed wrote:the weak point in a rover diff is the ring and pinion if you are breaking parts BEFORE these, you have not got the most out of your rover diffs. you can fit longfield or cvunlimited 4340 cv's with 300m cages, run aftermarket shafts, maxi-drive and jacmac, better diff centers, arb, jacmac and maxidrive.

if set up properly you should break ring and pinions first, if this is a problem change the centers to toyota hilux, crusier and now you have a hypoid set up thats stronger than the rover stuff and still have good ground clearence.

i'm guessing your truck is a dakar based kit?

i haven't herd anything that leads me to believe that KAM makes better gear than the others i mentioned

Ashcroft make a aeu2522 replacement cv in cromo.....

don't rule out all your options before changing hole axles

cheers, Serg

Tha R&Ps are quoted as 50% stronger and the halfshafts as 35%. The KAM site is www.kamdiffs.com. The reason of my choice is that I liked the idea of the easy front replacement. Which really works. And the idea is that it should break before anything else, being cheaper and easier to replace. But it may be too weak for this reason and it breaks in cases that it shouldn't. I've been told from the local distributor that we may order them stronger but with the risk that something else brakes instead. I am thinking of trying it and see what happens. When I start to brake R&P's it will mean that my half shafts are strong enough!

I have a Traka based kit, similar to Dakar.

I can't see a point in changing to Toyota centers. I can reather use whole axles instead with stronger shafts. I can wait until the next time something breaks again and see. The thing is that other heavily modified cars use axles like Dana 44 and 60 and GM 12 bolt, either stock or aftermarket like Dynatrak. As the car develops I think I will need something really strong.

The easiest option is to get the new 4340/300M 24 spline cv's and axles from Ashcrofts in the UK. These will be stronger than your KAM diffs.

Ashcroft can increase the strength of your diffs by fitting a slipper pad behind the crown wheel to prevent the distortion that leads to tooth failure.

The Ashcroft cv's will be stronger than Nissan GQ cv's, and the axles will be stronger than your KAM axles because they are 24 spline at both ends ie they dont step down in size at the cv.

These are a new products, improved from previous cv's and axles.

Bitsamissin wrote:Large Pajero rear diff is 9.5" with 33.5mm and 31 spline axles.
80 Series rear diff is 9.5" (??) 33mm and 30 spline axles.
The main difference is that the 80 Series is a full floater where as the Paj is a semi floater. So the 80 Series axles would probly be stronger overall but they can shear hub bolts but these can be upgraded to 10mm.
The Paj rear diff centre is stronger than a 80 Series IMHO mainly due to the crownwheel thickness (I've seen both).
I spose for a comp truck it will boil down to availability and price and there the Toyo will be better.
But the 3.5 Paj rear end is plenty strong.
The 3.5 Paj rear diffs came in a 4.636 or 4.90 ratio some later models had 4.27.

Hi Frank,
funny or not I can find the Pajero rear diff easier, with the factory locker as well. The problem is finding a front to match it.

The Toyota 80 series was never imported in Greece, in fact the 90 series was the first Land Cruiser officially available. I don't know if the Hilux axles are the same.

One picture as promised :

Why doesn't it show? Am I doing something wrong...?

You've linked the page, not the actual photo.