Just wondering whether a 96 TD 80 Series should have 1HDFT or 1HZ as the engine number under the bonnet?
No luck so far from the toyota forum... Thought it might get seen here?
Cheers!
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Toyota Engine Numbers
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Well the standard engine which is a 1HZ is a N/A engine and have glow plugs ( white/grey caped things near each injector all conected with a piece of metal ) does it come up with a coil symbol ( on the dash) before starting??if you have been ripped.Moonman wrote:Um..? Not sure?
Why's that?
But if it is without glow plugs, then you have the better direct injection factory turbo engine.
Daniels
Ok i will have to check this tonight...
Pretty sure i've been ripped off!!
The guy must have gone all out to make it look like the real thing...
Even added the "Turbo Multi-Valve" stickers at the back.
All genuine toyota gear. Only thing that stood out was the oil pressure line
to the turbo. Only noticed that because the seal went in it and i had oil all
over the place!! And then checked the engine number again (1HZ) and
had to get confirmation.
Pretty sure i've been ripped off!!
The guy must have gone all out to make it look like the real thing...
Even added the "Turbo Multi-Valve" stickers at the back.
All genuine toyota gear. Only thing that stood out was the oil pressure line
to the turbo. Only noticed that because the seal went in it and i had oil all
over the place!! And then checked the engine number again (1HZ) and
had to get confirmation.
1HD-FT has a wide, aluminium rocker cover. there are no glow plugs, there is a glow screen in the inlet between the crossover and the plenum. the inlet manifold has 12 runners (each inlet valve has its own port). the flange between the inlet plenum and the crossover is square-ish. the engine number will have 1HD in it somewhere. 1HZ has a narrow, plastic (painted silver) rocker cover (identical to 1HD-T). In fact a 1HZ and a 1HD-T (12 valve factory turbo) look almost identical externally. the easiest way to tell is by the injectors - the 1HZ injectors are short and fat and screw into the head. the 1HD-T injectors are tall and thin and are held into the head with a bolt and retainer off to one side. (1HD-FT injectors are hidden under the rocker cover)
factory turbo motors will have the oil return from the turbo plumbed into the side of the block more or less directly below the turbo. Aftermarket or retro-fitted turbos will usually have the oil return plumbed back into the side of the sump.
other telltales: turbo models will have a H151F gearbox. non turbo models will have a H150F gearbox. turbo models will have a LED on the dashboard (in the tacho) with a little turbo symbol next to it (for overboost) on models after mid 1995 or a red and green pair of LEDs on earlier models.
it is POSSIBLE (but prohibitively expensive) to build a 1HD-T or even a 1HD-FT on a 1HZ block and crank by using the turbo head, pistons, manifolds etc, but this is highly unlikely. the appearance of the injectors will determine whether it is a direct or indirect injection head, appearance of rocker cover will tell if it's a multivalve or not (from memory the multivalve rocker cover actually has 'turbo multivalve' embossed on it.
depending on the price it could still be a good buy even if it's just a boosted 1HZ, but they do not have the power or economy potential of the direct injected motors. Have another look and if the guy is shady, beat him down to a giveaway price by threats of calling fair trading or whoever!
factory turbo motors will have the oil return from the turbo plumbed into the side of the block more or less directly below the turbo. Aftermarket or retro-fitted turbos will usually have the oil return plumbed back into the side of the sump.
other telltales: turbo models will have a H151F gearbox. non turbo models will have a H150F gearbox. turbo models will have a LED on the dashboard (in the tacho) with a little turbo symbol next to it (for overboost) on models after mid 1995 or a red and green pair of LEDs on earlier models.
it is POSSIBLE (but prohibitively expensive) to build a 1HD-T or even a 1HD-FT on a 1HZ block and crank by using the turbo head, pistons, manifolds etc, but this is highly unlikely. the appearance of the injectors will determine whether it is a direct or indirect injection head, appearance of rocker cover will tell if it's a multivalve or not (from memory the multivalve rocker cover actually has 'turbo multivalve' embossed on it.
depending on the price it could still be a good buy even if it's just a boosted 1HZ, but they do not have the power or economy potential of the direct injected motors. Have another look and if the guy is shady, beat him down to a giveaway price by threats of calling fair trading or whoever!
Free air locker to the first 20 callers!
Ok had a quick look this arvo and there is definitely a glow symbol that appears on the instument panel for a second or two when the ignition is turned on.
And looking at the motor i can see what was described earlier as the glow plugs, along with the 1HZ as the engine number.
The car was advertised privately (on carsales.com) as a 96 model multi-valve turbo diesel "best you will find" ... So far im not that impressed with what i've found! On inspection the car was in very good condition as far as the body was concerned especially for its age. As I said before it even had the "Turbo Multi-Valve" stickers on the rear side panels. The interior was a little dirty, but nothing a bit of a elbow grease couldn't tidy up (No scratches or broken bits etc.). Under the bonnet was a turboed toyota engine. Seemed genuine enough (im not an expert by any means) with the toyota tag on everything visible at a glance. The engine bay was a bit dirty, like it had driven through a muddy puddle and sprayed a bit of dirty water up there at some stage but nothing to worry about. Thought this was a good indication that he wasn't trying to hide anything. Couldn't see any signs of oil leaks etc. When crawling underneath you could tell it had been offroad a bit (which is what its for) scrapes on the diffs and gaurds but nothing major. No rust or leaking diffs or anything really. As i was only in qld for 2 more days i had to make a decision, hence the reason i decided to buy it. It looked the goods and supposedly had the motor i had been searching for and the price i thought was reasonable. Payed $26500 i the end.
Well as the story goes, i had to drive it back from where i picked it up in nambour (sunshine coast) to brissy, about 100kms. Cruised back on the motorway at about 110km/h no dramas as far as i could tell. Felt good to drive, easy smooth gear changes, straight on the road even with the 4inch lift and the 305/70/16's etc. It was only when i got back to brissy and was locked out of the house i was staying at, that i had a look over it again. Whilst laying under it I noticed that there was oil everywhere??!!! There was that much you couldn't even tell where it was coming from. Called the guy imeadiately and told him what was wrong (he seemed the nicest and most genuine guy around) and he rang around and organised someone to check it out, although i still had to get it there. Said it was only 8kms from where i was staying, which i was not keen on but had to do it. Turns out in Brisbane it takes at least half an hour to get 8km on a friday morning. Anyways got to enzed and the fella reckons a seal in the oil pressure line to the turbo has gone and spent about 20 minutes changing it over and cost a total of $22. Phew not a big deal im thinking and hoping thats the last of the problems. Well since then i have had oil leaking from the "inlet manifold?" and from somewhere around the turbo itself. But its too hard to tell where its leaking from as its pretty tricky to get at. Since then i've driven it from Brissy to Darwin with the same leaking oil problem and also managed to bust both the fan belts in the middle of nowhere on the way back. had to scounge around for some tools and could only get hold of one belt but it got me through in the end. have replaced the belts now but still have no ideas about the leaking oil problem. Any suggestions??? Will be having a better look this weekend hopefully. Maybe post some pics of whats under the bonnet?
Sorry that this has been so long winded, but its just frustrating to know that there are so many shonkies out there and to be able to put on the whole innocent act like a pro is scary!!
Needless to say im not impressed with how this has turned out (partly my fault) but would appreciate any suggesions on what to do next...
Cheers
Moonman!!
And looking at the motor i can see what was described earlier as the glow plugs, along with the 1HZ as the engine number.
The car was advertised privately (on carsales.com) as a 96 model multi-valve turbo diesel "best you will find" ... So far im not that impressed with what i've found! On inspection the car was in very good condition as far as the body was concerned especially for its age. As I said before it even had the "Turbo Multi-Valve" stickers on the rear side panels. The interior was a little dirty, but nothing a bit of a elbow grease couldn't tidy up (No scratches or broken bits etc.). Under the bonnet was a turboed toyota engine. Seemed genuine enough (im not an expert by any means) with the toyota tag on everything visible at a glance. The engine bay was a bit dirty, like it had driven through a muddy puddle and sprayed a bit of dirty water up there at some stage but nothing to worry about. Thought this was a good indication that he wasn't trying to hide anything. Couldn't see any signs of oil leaks etc. When crawling underneath you could tell it had been offroad a bit (which is what its for) scrapes on the diffs and gaurds but nothing major. No rust or leaking diffs or anything really. As i was only in qld for 2 more days i had to make a decision, hence the reason i decided to buy it. It looked the goods and supposedly had the motor i had been searching for and the price i thought was reasonable. Payed $26500 i the end.
Well as the story goes, i had to drive it back from where i picked it up in nambour (sunshine coast) to brissy, about 100kms. Cruised back on the motorway at about 110km/h no dramas as far as i could tell. Felt good to drive, easy smooth gear changes, straight on the road even with the 4inch lift and the 305/70/16's etc. It was only when i got back to brissy and was locked out of the house i was staying at, that i had a look over it again. Whilst laying under it I noticed that there was oil everywhere??!!! There was that much you couldn't even tell where it was coming from. Called the guy imeadiately and told him what was wrong (he seemed the nicest and most genuine guy around) and he rang around and organised someone to check it out, although i still had to get it there. Said it was only 8kms from where i was staying, which i was not keen on but had to do it. Turns out in Brisbane it takes at least half an hour to get 8km on a friday morning. Anyways got to enzed and the fella reckons a seal in the oil pressure line to the turbo has gone and spent about 20 minutes changing it over and cost a total of $22. Phew not a big deal im thinking and hoping thats the last of the problems. Well since then i have had oil leaking from the "inlet manifold?" and from somewhere around the turbo itself. But its too hard to tell where its leaking from as its pretty tricky to get at. Since then i've driven it from Brissy to Darwin with the same leaking oil problem and also managed to bust both the fan belts in the middle of nowhere on the way back. had to scounge around for some tools and could only get hold of one belt but it got me through in the end. have replaced the belts now but still have no ideas about the leaking oil problem. Any suggestions??? Will be having a better look this weekend hopefully. Maybe post some pics of whats under the bonnet?
Sorry that this has been so long winded, but its just frustrating to know that there are so many shonkies out there and to be able to put on the whole innocent act like a pro is scary!!
Needless to say im not impressed with how this has turned out (partly my fault) but would appreciate any suggesions on what to do next...
Cheers
Moonman!!
Haven't got back to him yet... Wanted to get my facts right first, and really what can you do? I guess if you fail to see these things
before you buy it, its kinda your own bad luck... eh? Just wish i'd had a bit more time to look and think it over. Oh well i could probably
sort everything out and get rid of it again in 6 months for the same amount if not more... Will see how we go.
The car has done just under 200000km but the turbo looks like new? Apparently they discolor or rust after a bit of use because
of the heat? But this one looks still nice and shiny silver apart from the oil leaking from it!!!
As for fuel economy it's not as good i'd hoped... Guess thats cause its not the motor i thought it was. After 3500km from brissy to Darwin
I was using 16-17L/100kms driving between 100-115 most of the time. Doesn't sound that good to me? Almost as bad as a petrol!
Oh well at least it looks the part if you don't look too close
Cheers!
before you buy it, its kinda your own bad luck... eh? Just wish i'd had a bit more time to look and think it over. Oh well i could probably
sort everything out and get rid of it again in 6 months for the same amount if not more... Will see how we go.
The car has done just under 200000km but the turbo looks like new? Apparently they discolor or rust after a bit of use because
of the heat? But this one looks still nice and shiny silver apart from the oil leaking from it!!!
As for fuel economy it's not as good i'd hoped... Guess thats cause its not the motor i thought it was. After 3500km from brissy to Darwin
I was using 16-17L/100kms driving between 100-115 most of the time. Doesn't sound that good to me? Almost as bad as a petrol!
Oh well at least it looks the part if you don't look too close
Cheers!
AFAIK (I am no lawyer) - If it was advertised as a multivalve and it is not then that is misrepresentation of goods (false advertising), which AFAIK is a very serious offence. If you wanted to take it as far as a court you seem to have a good argument - it was advertised as a multivalve, it had multivalve stickers, but no multivalve engine - how are you - an average buyer, not a toyota expert, supposed to be able to tell a multivalve from a non-multivalve engine?Moonman wrote:Haven't got back to him yet... Wanted to get my facts right first, and really what can you do? I guess if you fail to see these things
before you buy it, its kinda your own bad luck... eh?
I think you would have extra grounds on the basis that multivalves sell for a lot more - i.e. the seller was trying to gain money by misreresenting the goods.
Last edited by ISUZUROVER on Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_____________________________________________________________
RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
the compressor side of the turbo is aluminium and should look shiny even if it is 10 years old. the exhaust side is cast iron and will look rusty from near new. a factory turbo will have heat shields around the exhaust side of the turboMoonman wrote: The car has done just under 200000km but the turbo looks like new? Apparently they discolor or rust after a bit of use because
of the heat? But this one looks still nice and shiny silver apart from the oil leaking from it!!!
that's pretty poor, depending on accessories and tyres, racks and bars. my last 80 1HZ+turbo would return around 13 - 14l/100km, possibly slightly better for that kind of driving, so yours might be set up to overfuel heaps (bad - high EGT's) or has a very restrictive exhaust or badly needs an injector overhaul.As for fuel economy it's not as good i'd hoped... Guess thats cause its not the motor i thought it was. After 3500km from brissy to Darwin
I was using 16-17L/100kms driving between 100-115 most of the time. Doesn't sound that good to me? Almost as bad as a petrol!
Free air locker to the first 20 callers!
Ok here are some pics of under the lid... Definitely not the multi-valve as shown in the other pic! The old man got a bit carried
away with his new pressure cleaner so there's not much sign of oil in the pics but enough.
As for getting it checked by a professional, i really only had 2 days to inspect, make a decision and pay for the car before
driving back. I know i still should have had it checked out properly and would have saved me the dramas later, but im obviously
just too trusting... Never again i tell you now though!
I borrowed a mates 91 1HDT which only has the standard suspension and tyres to see the difference between the two. Mine actually
had more power an rode and handled better even with the 4inch lift and 34/12.5/16's. Although mine was definitely blowing more
smoke ad has been getting worse since i got back. Any suggestions? Am changing the oils tomorrow.
DUMDUNCE: "that's pretty poor, depending on accessories and tyres, racks and bars. my last 80 1HZ+turbo would return around
13 - 14l/100km, possibly slightly better for that kind of driving, so yours might be set up to overfuel heaps (bad - high EGT's)
or has a very restrictive exhaust or badly needs an injector overhaul." Mine has a 2.5 or 3 inch straight through exhaust
so I wouldn't imagine its that. EGT is what??? How could i tell if the injectors need doing?
Cheers!
Moonman
away with his new pressure cleaner so there's not much sign of oil in the pics but enough.
As for getting it checked by a professional, i really only had 2 days to inspect, make a decision and pay for the car before
driving back. I know i still should have had it checked out properly and would have saved me the dramas later, but im obviously
just too trusting... Never again i tell you now though!
I borrowed a mates 91 1HDT which only has the standard suspension and tyres to see the difference between the two. Mine actually
had more power an rode and handled better even with the 4inch lift and 34/12.5/16's. Although mine was definitely blowing more
smoke ad has been getting worse since i got back. Any suggestions? Am changing the oils tomorrow.
DUMDUNCE: "that's pretty poor, depending on accessories and tyres, racks and bars. my last 80 1HZ+turbo would return around
13 - 14l/100km, possibly slightly better for that kind of driving, so yours might be set up to overfuel heaps (bad - high EGT's)
or has a very restrictive exhaust or badly needs an injector overhaul." Mine has a 2.5 or 3 inch straight through exhaust
so I wouldn't imagine its that. EGT is what??? How could i tell if the injectors need doing?
Cheers!
Moonman
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Moonman,
As for you cruiser blowing smoke (black I take it??), it sounds like its over fueling abit. it would be a good idea to get the injectors and fuel pump looked at by someone who knows what they are doind with fuel systems.
EGT- Exhaust Gas Temp is the temp of the gases as they come out of the engine, and are directly linked to how much fuel and boost are going into the engine. High EGT is not a good thing!! High EGT can be attributed to incorrect fuel/air mix - or over fueling as yours sounds to be doing.
Fuel economy doesnt sound to flash, but it does sound to be running slightly over fueled. I used to get 790kms out of 80L in my 61seires with a 12ht engine.... mine you I used to cruise at 95-100kms as anything over that it would use nearly 80L to do 450-500kms @ 120kms though
Mi2C
Daniels
As for you cruiser blowing smoke (black I take it??), it sounds like its over fueling abit. it would be a good idea to get the injectors and fuel pump looked at by someone who knows what they are doind with fuel systems.
EGT- Exhaust Gas Temp is the temp of the gases as they come out of the engine, and are directly linked to how much fuel and boost are going into the engine. High EGT is not a good thing!! High EGT can be attributed to incorrect fuel/air mix - or over fueling as yours sounds to be doing.
Fuel economy doesnt sound to flash, but it does sound to be running slightly over fueled. I used to get 790kms out of 80L in my 61seires with a 12ht engine.... mine you I used to cruise at 95-100kms as anything over that it would use nearly 80L to do 450-500kms @ 120kms though
Mi2C
Daniels
I've had the local rego mechanic look at it and reckons the leaking oil is possibly a seal in the turbo that has gone to sh*t...
Will get that looked at on the weekend by a turbo fitter and see what he thinks. Rego guy wouldn't even pass my tyres (too wide)
How do I lower my EGT's? Is it just a matter of running it leaner, and maybe changing the fuel filter? I'm getting more
"black smoke" at low revs when accelerating but higher revs seem a lot cleaner... I'll be happy again if it doesn't cost me
an arm and a leg! Even with the other turbo...
Will get that looked at on the weekend by a turbo fitter and see what he thinks. Rego guy wouldn't even pass my tyres (too wide)
How do I lower my EGT's? Is it just a matter of running it leaner, and maybe changing the fuel filter? I'm getting more
"black smoke" at low revs when accelerating but higher revs seem a lot cleaner... I'll be happy again if it doesn't cost me
an arm and a leg! Even with the other turbo...
Does it have a fuel / boost compensator on the injector pump? Factory turbo diesels (I believe) have these, while after market turbo engines may not.Moonman wrote:I've had the local rego mechanic look at it and reckons the leaking oil is possibly a seal in the turbo that has gone to sh*t...
Will get that looked at on the weekend by a turbo fitter and see what he thinks. Rego guy wouldn't even pass my tyres (too wide)
How do I lower my EGT's? Is it just a matter of running it leaner, and maybe changing the fuel filter? I'm getting more
"black smoke" at low revs when accelerating but higher revs seem a lot cleaner... I'll be happy again if it doesn't cost me
an arm and a leg! Even with the other turbo...
I'm led to believe that they increase or decrease the amount of diesel which is injected as the revs / boost increases or decreases. This might explain why you are getting over fuelling at low revs and then it is right at high revs - because it is set for one rev range????
Anyone feel free to correct me if i am way off here!
Moonman,
it might pay to have the EGT checked when the turbo seal is serviced( they can do this on the dyno), that will determine wether or not they need to be lowered. Ajusting fuel is something that will have to be done by someone in the know- diesel injection guru and not something that us backyardies can do.
a bit of Black smoke at low revs may not be an issue, it depends on how much- is it excessive?
it might pay to have the EGT checked when the turbo seal is serviced( they can do this on the dyno), that will determine wether or not they need to be lowered. Ajusting fuel is something that will have to be done by someone in the know- diesel injection guru and not something that us backyardies can do.
a bit of Black smoke at low revs may not be an issue, it depends on how much- is it excessive?
1. The copper pipe is not a good thing. They work harden around the compression joint and may snap off. Replace as you said.Ive never seen a Turbo install in years that uses copper?
2. A dump of fuel at low rpms may be normal if the fuelling has been set to match the boost at higher revs. Just dont floor throttle. Wind it in as you accelerate. (assuming no boost compensator on pump)
3. EGTs may also be fine at cruising speeds. Diesel is an air pump and will only use the fuel it need mixed with the air it requires to maintain a constant speed. Acceleration of heavy load is a different thing.
4. Change AIR filter 1st then fuel filter. Use a standard Toyota filter.
5. Many turbo 4bees seem to leak oil at gasket faces. It can be seepage that is forced thru due to positive pressure. There is a big differnce between an oil keak and oil smudge.
5. The breather is probably plumbed into the intake before turbo so it will breathe oil.
6. Get engine oil and filter changed too.
Good luck.
Bazzle
2. A dump of fuel at low rpms may be normal if the fuelling has been set to match the boost at higher revs. Just dont floor throttle. Wind it in as you accelerate. (assuming no boost compensator on pump)
3. EGTs may also be fine at cruising speeds. Diesel is an air pump and will only use the fuel it need mixed with the air it requires to maintain a constant speed. Acceleration of heavy load is a different thing.
4. Change AIR filter 1st then fuel filter. Use a standard Toyota filter.
5. Many turbo 4bees seem to leak oil at gasket faces. It can be seepage that is forced thru due to positive pressure. There is a big differnce between an oil keak and oil smudge.
5. The breather is probably plumbed into the intake before turbo so it will breathe oil.
6. Get engine oil and filter changed too.
Good luck.
Bazzle
Current tyres are 305/70/16 (34/12.5/16) BFG Muds. Stick out about
an inch (max) past the standard GXL flares.
Now blows excessive smoke at low revs. Embarrasing really...
Wouldn't want be the guy driving behind me when leaving the lights.
Originally didn't notice it but now can see it (a lot) in the rearview!!
Wouldn't mind getting the EGT checked but not sure who up here would
have a dyno? I haven't heard of anyone getting their cars dyno tuned...
Guess i'd have to look around. What would it be worth to get this done
do you think? And can they get it right the first time? If I can get the fuel
economy down to say 14L/100kms and minimal smoke it'd be great!!
Too bad i was looking forward to using the 4BY over the easter weekend.
an inch (max) past the standard GXL flares.
Now blows excessive smoke at low revs. Embarrasing really...
Wouldn't want be the guy driving behind me when leaving the lights.
Originally didn't notice it but now can see it (a lot) in the rearview!!
Wouldn't mind getting the EGT checked but not sure who up here would
have a dyno? I haven't heard of anyone getting their cars dyno tuned...
Guess i'd have to look around. What would it be worth to get this done
do you think? And can they get it right the first time? If I can get the fuel
economy down to say 14L/100kms and minimal smoke it'd be great!!
Too bad i was looking forward to using the 4BY over the easter weekend.
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