front or back

Post by **siggie** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:33 pm

gidday guys
im intrested in your opinion on which diff to weld
the front or the back
I drive sig to work shops and 4byin
I dont do a lot of long trips but spends most of the time
on the black stuff
what do you think
thanks jeff

Post by **ofr57** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:55 pm

I'd do the front since it wont effect the road handling

Post by **Goatse.AJ** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:29 am

I'd go the front. I know people will come up with all sorts of arguments about what is best, but my experience is that a FRONT locked diff will give better results generally than a rear-only. Do a search on the testing that AJ did for the SA online mag for some interesting results.

Post by **Aerenandmel** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:34 am

if you weld the back its good and bad. great traction all round, so much fun in the wet

also dangerous in the wet if your not paying attention, and they cherp in the dry. you can rid most of the cherp by pumping you tires up hella hard but you cant do nothin about the wet.

Post by **Huggy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:05 am

id would weld the front as the rear likes to screw you around while out playing

Post by **Nev** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:35 am

Huggy wrote:id would weld the front as the rear likes to screw you around while out playing

explain??? I don't think my rear has ever "screwed around" off road. Id go the rear....don't have to worry so much about breaking stuff so you have more fun. Don't have to get out of the car all the time to lock/unlock a hub to turn tight corners etc. Eventually you will get lazy and just leave it locked and break stuff in the front....no better way to wreck a day then fixing cvs and alike on the track. The rear is still a 100% improvement over stock.

Post by **mysterioussasvit** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:06 am

weld the back without power steering it gets mighty heavy after a day of wheeling take it from experince my own car and kermit sick of weld up in front only wish i could get an airlocker for the front

Post by **suzuki boy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:00 pm

I've got lock rites front and rear and in 4wd it's VERY hard to steer unless your in mud

Definatly weld the rear. Great fun in the wet as well!

Post by **Huggy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:50 pm

Nev wrote:
Huggy wrote:id would weld the front as the rear likes to screw you around while out playing
explain??? I don't think my rear has ever "screwed around" off road. Id go the rear....don't have to worry so much about breaking stuff so you have more fun. Don't have to get out of the car all the time to lock/unlock a hub to turn tight corners etc. Eventually you will get lazy and just leave it locked and break stuff in the front....no better way to wreck a day then fixing cvs and alike on the track. The rear is still a 100% improvement over stock.

people i know with welded rear diffs seem to get steered (screwed) from the back wheels

Post by **siggie** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:33 pm

thanks guys
ill have a think about your comment before I do the deed
Im lucky to have a spare so if I dont like it I can put it back
thanks jeff

Post by **Spartacus** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:25 pm

Huggy wrote:
Nev wrote:
Huggy wrote:id would weld the front as the rear likes to screw you around while out playing
explain??? I don't think my rear has ever "screwed around" off road. Id go the rear....don't have to worry so much about breaking stuff so you have more fun. Don't have to get out of the car all the time to lock/unlock a hub to turn tight corners etc. Eventually you will get lazy and just leave it locked and break stuff in the front....no better way to wreck a day then fixing cvs and alike on the track. The rear is still a 100% improvement over stock.
people i know with welded rear diffs seem to get steered (screwed) from the back wheels

ahha its like when u tryin to goes across an angle the rear wheels spin
the car around because traveling at same speed...basically i spose

Post by **Gwagensteve** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:18 pm

Huggy wrote:
people i know with welded rear diffs seem to get steered (screwed) from the back wheels

It all balances out though - people with welded front diffs can't steer at all

Weld the rear. you will get sick of getting in and out all day locking and unlocking hubs so you can go round corners.

Welded rear diffs are fun.

Steve.

Post by **Nev** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:21 am

Spartacus wrote:
Huggy wrote:
Nev wrote:
Huggy wrote:id would weld the front as the rear likes to screw you around while out playing
explain??? I don't think my rear has ever "screwed around" off road. Id go the rear....don't have to worry so much about breaking stuff so you have more fun. Don't have to get out of the car all the time to lock/unlock a hub to turn tight corners etc. Eventually you will get lazy and just leave it locked and break stuff in the front....no better way to wreck a day then fixing cvs and alike on the track. The rear is still a 100% improvement over stock.
people i know with welded rear diffs seem to get steered (screwed) from the back wheels
ahha its like when u tryin to goes across an angle the rear wheels spin
the car around because traveling at same speed...basically i spose

i think you can control this though..less throttle and u get across fine. sometimes when i slide a bit sideways on a hill ill give it a bit to kick it round straight again...u know as well as anyone that this works. welded front will tend to go straight ahead when trying to turn on a low traction surface which is i presume the effect of screwing you were talking about...on the front this is far worse coz they are your steering wheels. jmo

Post by **christover1** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:27 am

In the end you will want both locked anyway, but start with the rear.
Remember you must give yourself time to adjust to the new handling.
I think a welded front is quite often better than a rear, but only in extreme hard core situations.
Welded rear is enough in most medium to hard tracks.
Welded rear is less harsh on driveline than the front.

I use welded rear, has been there for years, I love it.
I had a welded front for a very long time, and offroad it was fantastic, but as stated before, its a bugger to keep unlocking a hub when fine steering needed.

I now have an auto locker, lockright, in the front. Much better for steering, but still needed the power steering.

just do it, you can remove it if you hate it.

christover

Post by **Nev** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:43 pm

once again very good advice from christover however if i was to go a front locker i would def go air locker (if you dont have power steer)...but maybe thats just me and you can be bothered getting in and out of car but i imagine it runs thin pretty quick! go the rear first...still makes an unbelievable difference with which you wont be dissappointed whilst being less prone to damage and not a constant hassle when offroad.

Post by **christover1** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:46 pm

Nev wrote:however if i was to go a front locker i would def go air locker (if you dont have power steer)....

I agree totally. Even with power steering air lock up front is best.
But in my case they aren't available for 1.0 litre diffs.
$$$ can be an issue, too, but worth saving up for an air locker if possible.
But then its only a little extra to air lock the rear, as compresser is done already, for the front.

At the mopment I have no rear tailshaft.
Driving on front only with the auto locker is very unpleasant.
So I would only recommend auto locker for slow speed work.
In 2wd (with rear tailshaft) I can't feel it, even with hubs locked.

christover

Post by **suzuki boy** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:19 pm

If i had a chance to do a front locker again i would probably go air locker just so you can have it on and off! How easy is powre steering to put on?

Post by **christover1** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:33 pm

suzuki boy wrote:If i had a chance to do a front locker again i would probably go air locker just so you can have it on and off! How easy is powre steering to put on?

Easy but not cheap if you use a Jimny set up. Not quite bolt on, but close.
Mine is a full Vitara set up, where some fabbing/welding is required.
Toyota cressida p/s box is easier to fit, but still needs fabbing.
Theres lots of info on outerlimits on the subject.

My power steer conversion, along with other mods, is going to be in the Winter issue of 4wheelingOZ, out shortly (was 4wheelingSA)

christover

Post by **SiKiD_01** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:03 pm

i have a welded front diff in my vitara, cant steer with both hubs locked. and that in 2H only.

air locker front, and weld the back.

Post by **suzuki boy** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:09 pm

Thanks Christover i will that mag and start to get some bits and pieces happening.

Post by **siggie** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:57 pm

thanks heaps guys for all your input
the rear has won the deal , just got to get it done
again thanks for all the input
jeff

Post by **john1974** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:59 pm

Why weld, welds can break if there not done proper. 200.00 gets you a locker.

Id do a locker in the front.

Post by **christover1** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:17 pm

john1974 wrote:Why weld, welds can break if there not done proper. 200.00 gets you a locker.

Id do a locker in the front.

We have to pay a lot more for them here, but diffs are cheap and easy to get, so this can affect decision making.
But yes, poor diff welds don't last long.
I had 1 weled rear diff fail after 5 years of abuse, 2nd is still fine.
Rear weld and auto locker up front is best of the cheapest.
Twin ARB diff lox is best all round.
Just my opinion, tho.

christover

Post by **Nev** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 2:04 pm

john1974 wrote:Why weld, welds can break if there not done proper. 200.00 gets you a locker.

So can lockers...and from what ive seen on here just about as often as a welded

Post by **Pep** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:43 am

Just a quick question, once the rear diff is welded
i'm concerned about axel strength, is that often a problem?
Cheers Pep

Post by **christover1** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:41 am

Pep wrote:Just a quick question, once the rear diff is welded
i'm concerned about axel strength, is that often a problem?
Cheers Pep

Obviously there is more strain on parts, but drive accordingly.
I've not broken any rear axles, as yet.
Don't do powered U-turns and all should be fine

christover

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