Rockcrawler buggy safety

[N*A*M]

I just heard about a pretty nasty buggy roll on the weekend. I'm told the buggy endoed backwards a few times. The driver sustained some neck injuries and broke a few ribs. Thankfully he's recovering quickly but it could have been an entirely different outcome. He'd just recently upgraded from a 4pt harness to a 5pt system. It may have saved his life.

So this is just a note to all not to go cheap on your buggy build ups. The standard of rock we are attempting nowadays really warrants a hard look at driver safety. Look at the Aussie comp photos - or footage from the Portland comp in the US.

I know a lot of the top teams are using suspension seats. I think that is a very good investment. Quality harness, helmet and wrist restraints are definitely a minimum. Neck braces might be overkill in most cases, but it's the one time you need it that you wish you had it.

I used to be blase about safety equipment for myself. Rockcrawling was seen as a low risk activity to me. But the standard of crawling is much harder now. The potential danger is much higher. If somebody you care about is driving, you'd want the most protection for them as possible. Some food for thought.

[buddha]

Heard some lights wouldnt have go astray either

[bazzle]

Suspension seats are a bugger as you bounce against your harness and it goes loose. I wouldnt use them.

Bazzle

[A1]

I assume theres a reason why no names have been mention obviously its prob some1 that the local competitors will know ....


gald to hear that there recovering still sounds nasty enough with the injuries , you never want to hear some1's had some neck trauma




Dan

[redzook]

Suspension seats are a bugger as you bounce against your harness and it goes loose. I wouldnt use them.

Bazzle

what sort of suspension seat were u using?


when i have used them with a proper fitting 5 point harness
it was awsome no moving around and felt like i was sitting in a lounge chair

i wont be using anything but a suspension seat when i build a buggy

alos i hope who ever it is recovers quickly and gets back behind the wheel

[not not]

Agree with ya there Tim! Stuff the plastic break ya A@3 seats. When i sat in Toms buggy with the PRP seat it was awsome. I think if you are more comfortable in a buggy then you will drive better as well. ( well i hope so)

[FireTruck]

Suspension seat aren't seats with big springs or anything in them - people do get these confused... they simply have some 'give' in them (like a bit of stretch in the material, and some foam).

Unlike solid plastic or fiberglass.

I used to be bruised all up my back after a comp on the hard plastic seats... the PRP suspension seat I have in the FireBug now is unreal.

S.

[45punkbus]

Suspension seat aren't seats with big springs or anything in them - people do get these confused... they simply have some 'give' in them (like a bit of stretch in the material, and some foam).

Unlike solid plastic or fiberglass.

I used to be bruised all up my back after a comp on the hard plastic seats... the PRP suspension seat I have in the FireBug now is unreal.

S.

so they are different to the base of the ones in buses and trucks? thats what i thought they were

[FireTruck]

yep, very different... NO springs. A steel frame with material strung between it, and foam. Kind of a simplified explanation, but that's basically whay a suspension seat is in this context.

S.

[POS]

Yes, there was a discussion about a year ago where i was pretty well shot down for saying that all hard seats should be banned from use in competitive Rockcrawling.

Given time more and more incidents like this will happen unless people swollow some pride and take note of whats happening around the world.

I have used a suspension seat for ages now aswell as a 5 point harness and so far never had any injuries.

The next step for me will be using a neck brace on stages were i can see a high risk of a "savage" roll over happening.

I think this sort of stuff (even if its not inforced by the organisors) should be something the "top" or regular drivers do. You know the whole lead by example thing, that way when new people coming into the sport see everyone with Suspension seats, 5 point harness's and neck Braces they think its the norm and just do it anyway.

[Mad Cruiser]

Anyone got pics of these seats ?

[POS]

Anyone got pics of these seats ?

http://www.abt4x4.com/index.php?PCID=26 ... imary&CDO=

[not not]

only problem with suspension seats is you have to buy 2 off them for a pro mod buggy! But i reckon your back is worth a whole lot more. My buggy at the moment cant fit 2 PRP seats so i am going to build a new one that can fit them. Plus a heap stronger driveline But untill its done i think i will have to RISK injury with my plastic ones for about another 4/5 events

[bad_religion_au]

why can't you run one of each seat?

[zookjedi]

Yes, there was a discussion about a year ago where i was pretty well shot down for saying that all hard seats should be banned from use in competitive Rockcrawling.

Given time more and more incidents like this will happen unless people swollow some pride and take note of whats happening around the world.

I have used a suspension seat for ages now aswell as a 5 point harness and so far never had any injuries.

The next step for me will be using a neck brace on stages were i can see a high risk of a "savage" roll over happening.

I think this sort of stuff (even if its not inforced by the organisors) should be something the "top" or regular drivers do. You know the whole lead by example thing, that way when new people coming into the sport see everyone with Suspension seats, 5 point harness's and neck Braces they think its the norm and just do it anyway.

i carn't see how a suspension seat in this particular instance would have made any difference , i dont think the seat made any difference at all injury wise . i think the 5 point harness was the main difference holding him in place securely the whole time , given it would be more comfortable whilst rolling around in a suspension seat .

[zookjedi]

Heard some lights wouldnt have go astray either

i dont think lights were a big priority as he tumble down the hill !
said person has plenty of lights on there rig just dont work too well when going end over end .

[Daisy]

Yes, there was a discussion about a year ago where i was pretty well shot down for saying that all hard seats should be banned from use in competitive Rockcrawling.

Given time more and more incidents like this will happen unless people swollow some pride and take note of whats happening around the world.

I have used a suspension seat for ages now aswell as a 5 point harness and so far never had any injuries.

The next step for me will be using a neck brace on stages were i can see a high risk of a "savage" roll over happening.

I think this sort of stuff (even if its not inforced by the organisors) should be something the "top" or regular drivers do. You know the whole lead by example thing, that way when new people coming into the sport see everyone with Suspension seats, 5 point harness's and neck Braces they think its the norm and just do it anyway.

i carn't see how a suspension seat in this particular instance would have made any difference , i dont think the seat made any difference at all injury wise . i think the 5 point harness was the main difference holding him in place securely the whole time , given it would be more comfortable whilst rolling around in a suspension seat .

I disagree there.

I ran a plastic seat in my buggy for most of the 2005 season and was subject to a number of rollovers which i did hurt myself.

most of the rollovers i ended up upside down (pretty hard) and the harness caught me, so basically i had brusing on my collarbone muscles.

It wasnt until i took a hard landing after going downhill only to have the rear wheels come up and having to throttle it out to put the rear wheels back on the ground otherwise I would have rolled. That resulted in a harsh landing where the impact of the plastic seat rammed up my butt pushing my spine - yes it bloody hurt.. i was sore for a bit.. but didnt pay much attention to it at that time.

I then lent my buggy to Wes at the rover park round of this year where he barrel rolled it and this time it really hurt him and he came back and told me that i was crazy having a plastic seat in it.

I then made the decision that safety must be my number one priority. A PRP seat and harness made its way into it before the finals.

Two things happened at the finals that is worth mentioning.

I drove off this steep drop and landed on my rear wheels.



When i landed.. i was very impressed.. like it was soft.. not a THUD on your ass like my old plastic seat.. Under the PRP seatcover.. thers like 5 inches of foam.. which absorbed most of the impact when I landed.

In the picture below... Ballsac in the OPW buggy (i think runs a plastic seat or a kirkey seat?? in that one - someone confirm?? ) didnt like the landing as much..







Landing like that in the pictures above looked as if it hurt a fair bit.

Just my opinion.

[POS]

[In the picture below... Ballsac in the OPW buggy (i think runs a plastic seat or a kirkey seat?? in that one - someone confirm?? ) didnt like the landing as much..

Either that or Pete just found out where the second shifter was located

[Damo]

Man is THAT ever some good photochop material, N*A*M is gonna be all over that...

I hear what you guys are saying about the PRP seats etc, and it makes sense. But is there a lot of difference between one of those, and a normal car seat?

[redzook]

Man is THAT ever some good photochop material, N*A*M is gonna be all over that...

I hear what you guys are saying about the PRP seats etc, and it makes sense. But is there a lot of difference between one of those, and a normal car seat?

you would not belive the difference

[CanberraMav]

Can someone photochop a toilet under Antunac??

[sierrajim]

How much more room do the suspension seats take up as opposed to the lesser version?

[zookjedi]

Daisy i agree with what you are saying i have been in NAM's buggy when it floppped on its side and carlton drove it back onto its wheels and it came down hard on a rock right under the passenger seat and that hurt somewhat more than i would have thought , but pertaining to the accident that NAM is talking about the seat wouldn't have made that much difference in that particular roll , that was all i was saying , just like a helmut would help most of the time but in some instances doesn't make any difference depending on the roll .

those pics of Pete are gold

cheers Jai

[POS]

How much more room do the suspension seats take up as opposed to the lesser version?

About three inches.

Easy fix, make the roof height 3 inches higher.

[N*A*M]

i think width is also going to be an issue for some
and that's a bit harder to get around

[ljxtreem]

How much more room do the suspension seats take up as opposed to the lesser version?

About three inches.

Easy fix, make the roof height 3 inches higher.

Mock

[ljxtreem]

I agree with the most of the comments on this subject, a straight plastic seat is gonna hurt, and most of the covers that are avalable for them and the alloy seats are no good.

Ok suspension seats are good, I also can't see a problem with other types of seats with a good amount of padding.
my seat has a fibre glass skeleton, but has sh&t loads of padding, 2 - 3 inches under my arse and there is more in other places.

I have had no pain in my seat the way it is, take the padding away and I'm sure it would be all kinds of bad.

I think the rule should be that the seat should be adequately padded, after all that's what a suspension seat is, but not just the two brands or so that say they are suspension seats, there is a whole maket place of seats that are not labled "susspension" that I think would have enough padding.

Mock

[POS]

i think width is also going to be an issue for some
and that's a bit harder to get around

Pretty sure 790mm belly width on my buggy is pretty narrow, i now there would be some others out there with maybe slightly narrower bellys but its would be marginal. So they do fit.

The "scrappers" in the states are the narrowest buggy's (belly width) that i now of and they both have pRP or Beard seats in them.

Its like anything, adding say 50mm to the belly width (to allow a Suspension seat to fit) isn't going to be the telling factor in how well a buggy performs, i know i would sacrifice a few mm's to insure i give myself the best possible chance of living with the use of my legs.

[Damo]

i know i would sacrifice a few mm's to insure i give myself the best possible chance of living with the use of my legs.

And if whoever is governing the sport is concerned about safety i'd say these sort of changes will be written into the rules before long. Once that happens everyone is on a level playing field eg, chassis widths/heights etc so no one can claim that someone else has a competitive advantage because of using a smaller, but less safe, seat.