2007 Pajero challenge

[dogbreath_48]

Headed up a track (which was apparently wrong anyway) and this monster kangaroo with big long teeth jumped outta nowhere, and took a massive chunk out of our front left tyre, causing us to hit a log and launch the car onto its side for a nap about 10m forwards of the log

We could have sworn that was the right track - we came up but you guys had blocked it off - getting out of there and back on course really stuffed us up.
On the way back on course we took out a wallaby - no rollover though

Not many (any) new comers. Good to see so many great rigs.

There was us! Never done any nav event before nor did i know how to work the GPS until i had a play friday night

We started alright on S1 untill the halfway CP. Where we stuffed. Which sucked as the answer was 'Exceed'. This we are blaming on all the cars parked around the place. As this hid 2 of the E's that we needed. But we had enough for a DVD burning program. So next yr piss all the cars off.
Next half, we must have plotted wrong. As after the Black spur inn, we had problems with directions. So ended up cutting and running.

We had exactly the same problem - missed an E. But took a punt and guessed it
Also had problems with the plot after the hotel (after we went looking for a smaller wagon wheel at tudor lodge ). Also cut and run.

S3. The R Pepper stage. We expected this to be hard. Now I am all for hard. But as some others where talking about. This was just annoyingly hard and took all enjoyment out of the event.

I'm with you on this one - we really didn't enjoy sec. 3 - ended up finishing 2nd, 2 hours early.

Overall we probably did quite poorly - missed plenty of points and questions. But for our first event ever i was fairly happy with how we performed, and we had heaps of fun! Other than the wallaby strike, a small swarm of bee's getting into the car at 4am (after winching ) and a navigational miscalculation taking us through a boggy creek (with my window down ) it all ran as smooth as it could have!
We will definatly be getting into the nav-runs and be back at Pajero next year! Top effort by everyone all round - though the clowns under the powerlines at 3am did mess with my head a little - voted for them over the cows out of pure fear.

-Stu

[bundyrum4x4]

Great event, well organized. The competitors comradery was awesome!

Highlight was the cows check point - with a camp fire to make us feel really welcome. So who got the job of buying the inflatable cows from the sex shop

Worst part was section 3. Bit too hard in my opinion as turps stated but I guess that's the idea of the event - to push us to the limit.

Found some awesome tracks while being a little geographically confused. Will be going back for a look see soon.

Overall I had a ball, will be back again next year.

[turps]

Worst part was section 3. Bit too hard in my opinion as turps stated but I guess that's the idea of the event - to push us to the limit.

Found some awesome tracks while being a little geographically confused. Will be going back for a look see soon.

Overall I had a ball, will be back again next year.

Greg, all sections had some nav stuff that was just a frustrating POS to plot. I have no problems wacking in a bit of difficulty into it. Once on the road. The nav work was on the hard side, but was fun (if you can call fanging around the bush half asleep fun).
I realise they have to seperate the good from the bad competitors. But taking 1.5hrs to plot. Is a pain in the arse. All it caused us to do was take risks while being half asleep. We had our to closest calls to head ons on S3 and S4. We realise it isnt a speed event and we where travelling at speeds no faster than normal. Untill those two last stages when we knew we had lots k's to do in not enough time.

Oh and not to pick on Pepper. We had fun in the pine forest. most things went to plan except trying to extract a GQ wagon from a deep hole. Some dumbarse (Rob) left the reciver hitch pin at home. So had to ask the guys in the Black shorty (not hottie) to help them.

[80diesel4play]

Wow - what an eye opener the event was!!! Never done it but am hooked!! was an excellent way to "learn" navimigational stuff!!

Big thanks to trev and Jamie in teh blue GU Boosted ute - 1. for lending me a GPS and 2. for training my navvy at teh servo on teh way up, as well as big red toy for the same in the hour before first notes!

S1 - After loosing 4wd transfer selection within 20 minutes thought I was done for!! (lost a nut - zip ties to the rescue!!), twas an eye opener, ended up making navvy loose it over all the conversions on the oldish GPS...

S2 - we faired better but good fun - nurses made my blood pressure rise!!

S3 - took soft option along with 8 others, scored waypoints and max half points for 3 & 4 - made the night enjoyable for those who were map challenged!!

S4 - now twas teeh fun - lots of hard tracks, fun spots and U turns!!

Have top say big thanks to thos who ran stages, please send me pics of me trousers down hooking into the inflatable toys!

Top run event, food rocked, attitudes rocked and teh way people beahved was excellent - roll on next year - I'm, hooked...

trying to see if I can get a 106cm plasma as a my laptop screen for next year! might have made it easier!!! hahahahahaha doubt it!

Cheesr - Paulo & Stu

[bundyrum4x4]

Worst part was section 3. Bit too hard in my opinion as turps stated but I guess that's the idea of the event - to push us to the limit.

Found some awesome tracks while being a little geographically confused. Will be going back for a look see soon.

Overall I had a ball, will be back again next year.

Greg, all sections had some nav stuff that was just a frustrating POS to plot. I have no problems wacking in a bit of difficulty into it. Once on the road. The nav work was on the hard side, but was fun (if you can call fanging around the bush half asleep fun).
I realise they have to seperate the good from the bad competitors. But taking 1.5hrs to plot. Is a pain in the arse. All it caused us to do was take risks while being half asleep. We had our to closest calls to head ons on S3 and S4. We realise it isnt a speed event and we where travelling at speeds no faster than normal. Untill those two last stages when we knew we had lots k's to do in not enough time.

Oh and not to pick on Pepper. We had fun in the pine forest. most things went to plan except trying to extract a GQ wagon from a deep hole. Some dumbarse (Rob) left the reciver hitch pin at home. So had to ask the guys in the Black shorty (not hottie) to help them.

Yeh, agread. Think we got about 30 points for this stage, only to find out afterwards that we could have gotten a cheat sheet

[Big Red Toy]

After hearing what others have done i'm very interested to see how we placed overall

Good to see you had a ball Paulo

I may of aquired one of those inflatable cows, It was lookin at me in the truck & i was trying to think where on earth you would buy such a inflable animal, now i know it was until we were almost home that matt pointed out to me the extra access hole in the back of the cow

The cow is safely stowed away & will make a return to the next event unharmed hopefully anyway.... I don't have it so no accusing me of cow abuse

[turps]

yer we heard about the cheat sheet. Should have gotten it also. As our team could navigate thru the bush. Just couldnt work out the criptic bloody plotting.

[T.Trudi]

Cow napper!!!

You only had to ask and we would have let you have one anyway

Thanx everyone for joining in on the fun!

Trudi

[rmp]

Great to see all the comments, positive and negative. Keep it coming please.

When I saw Hobzee and Rudes early on S3 I do recall the comment "no worries we've cracked the code".

Yes, the plotting is difficult. Requires lateral thinking. I understand it may be viewed as tedious, but think of it this way; if you know how to do it then you've got an advantage over the others. However, if I'm still around next year my section will be harder to navigate and might ease off on the plotting as that seems to be what people want. You won't ever get a set of easy plain coordinates though. You may notice the nav test is missing, and that's because we reckon you're tested enough on the plot as it is.

Re the "cheat sheet". We had a lot of discussion over the difficulty level over the months, with two clear points of view which differed greatly. So eventually a compromise position was reached. If you remember at the briefing Ian specifically said "if you find it too hard come and see us". Those that did got a set of plain coords -- and their points halved. Their choice.

IMHO the event is now at another turning point. The top guys are so far ahead of the novices it is difficult to cater to both and almost two events need to be run in one. So we need to think about how we handle it next year because the gap will continue to widen. Either we run an event that caters to everyone, or we keep it at a given level. We're seeing that experience split with winch comps in the last few years now, where Vic Winch is entry and OBC/Ateco etc are for experienced only.

Also, there is no requirement to use a laptop computer or the latest GPS receiver. Everything can be done with the basics.

[turps]

Robert,
One of the things we found hard was. When working with a number of different WPT's that we had to work out before we could work out the first one. These had a large area of error, due to some parts having to be rounded off. And when the wpts werent far away (less than a K). We found that we had to work them out a number of times using the different rounding off. To get the right wpt.
S3 was full of these. We knew we could have asked for help. But being stubborn and knowing the only reason we wanted it was cos it was tedious and we where tired. Was not enough to take the easy option. Even though, with the cheat sheet we would have plotted and been out the gate in 30mins. WE would have found probably 90% of points. So taking that into account we well and truely would have scored higher.
I think your stages are good. Just this year was an easy 100% harder in the plotting than last yr. Last yr was a good level. Enough to seperate those that are good and those who deserve to be in the top10. Its a hard middle ground to find.

[rmp]

Robert,
One of the things we found hard was. When working with a number of different WPT's that we had to work out before we could work out the first one. These had a large area of error, due to some parts having to be rounded off. And when the wpts werent far away (less than a K). We found that we had to work them out a number of times using the different rounding off. To get the right wpt.

I don't follow why you had to plot the same NP more than once or round off?

[Ruffy]

Great to see all the comments, positive and negative. Keep it coming please.

When I saw Hobzee and Rudes early on S3 I do recall the comment "no worries we've cracked the code".

Yes, the plotting is difficult. Requires lateral thinking. I understand it may be viewed as tedious, but think of it this way; if you know how to do it then you've got an advantage over the others. However, if I'm still around next year my section will be harder to navigate and might ease off on the plotting as that seems to be what people want. You won't ever get a set of easy plain coordinates though. You may notice the nav test is missing, and that's because we reckon you're tested enough on the plot as it is.

Re the "cheat sheet". We had a lot of discussion over the difficulty level over the months, with two clear points of view which differed greatly. So eventually a compromise position was reached. If you remember at the briefing Ian specifically said "if you find it too hard come and see us". Those that did got a set of plain coords -- and their points halved. Their choice.

IMHO the event is now at another turning point. The top guys are so far ahead of the novices it is difficult to cater to both and almost two events need to be run in one. So we need to think about how we handle it next year because the gap will continue to widen. Either we run an event that caters to everyone, or we keep it at a given level. We're seeing that experience split with winch comps in the last few years now, where Vic Winch is entry and OBC/Ateco etc are for experienced only.

Also, there is no requirement to use a laptop computer or the latest GPS receiver. Everything can be done with the basics.

Robert,
I remember my first Pajero back in 99. It was tough as a first timer. But.. there was no other events of it's type. To me the Pajero is the pinnacle of Nav comps. It should be tough. I don't think you need to make apollogies for your stage. If it was too tough for you as a competitor then start reading for next year.
If you like nav comps and find the Pajero too challenging then start doing navruns. In fact if you like the Pajero and aren't doing navruns then do them anyway!!
I managed to plot most of stage 3 within 45 mins. The only thing that went wrong was my attention to detail..
I don't run a laptop either. I run an FX324.
I say keep in tough. If it's too easy then it's not testing skills.
If you think you have to push hard to make it in the time constraints then think safety first. It's a common sense issue here!!!

Keep it up Robert. loved it!!
See you at the amazing race???????????
Cheers Dan

[Hobzee]

I like the current form - if you just can't figure a point out then go to the next point. Simple. There was a lot of that going on and it means you are not out of the event because you can't work out 1 small aspect. But if that's what is going on out there then you need a reward at every waypoint so that those who do get there are rewarded with an answer on the sheet. I noted that a lot of people were getting away with not reaching a waypoint.

I think run the one route (easier with marshals) but run 2 sets of track notes. Uber hard for the nutters and then normal. This way you get everyone interested.

We made a few stuff ups which probably cost us the event...
1) 10-15 mins late at finish = 20-30 points (ouch) Otherwise finished everything.
2) Missed 2 questions in SS3 (too much looking at notes and GPS and not watching where we were going)
3) Too busy looking for pique nique literature and didn't see the hidden tk that took a direct route into end of SS3 (wrong way into CP) Also questions on that Tk - DOH!
4) Screwed up on a few answers


There were a few questions we were not sure how to answer eg .. Simex dont make tyres, nor do Pro Comp and the question asked for manufacturers.. Hmm how do you answer that? Dogs in park had 2 answers (on map and on a sign). I would rather less cryptic and more proof of correct nav work.

I was very happy with the event - loved it and coming back. Bring on the hardness for those that want it but reward them accordingly. Also going to suggest all Nav run people give it a go. Even Outback Challenge and Cliffhanger guys would benefit from the Navigation matter.

What are the dates for next yr?

Hobzee

[rmp]

I like the current form - if you just can't figure a point out then go to the next point. Simple. There was a lot of that going on and it means you are not out of the event because you can't work out 1 small aspect. But if that's what is going on out there then you need a reward at every waypoint so that those who do get there are rewarded with an answer on the sheet. I noted that a lot of people were getting away with not reaching a waypoint.

I think run the one route (easier with marshals) but run 2 sets of track notes. Uber hard for the nutters and then normal. This way you get everyone interested.

We made a few stuff ups which probably cost us the event...
1) 10-15 mins late at finish = 20-30 points (ouch) Otherwise finished everything.
2) Missed 2 questions in SS3 (too much looking at notes and GPS and not watching where we were going)
3) Too busy looking for pique nique literature and didn't see the hidden tk that took a direct route into end of SS3 (wrong way into CP) Also questions on that Tk - DOH!
4) Screwed up on a few answers


There were a few questions we were not sure how to answer eg .. Simex dont make tyres, nor do Pro Comp and the question asked for manufacturers.. Hmm how do you answer that? Dogs in park had 2 answers (on map and on a sign). I would rather less cryptic and more proof of correct nav work.

I was very happy with the event - loved it and coming back. Bring on the hardness for those that want it but reward them accordingly. Also going to suggest all Nav run people give it a go. Even Outback Challenge and Cliffhanger guys would benefit from the Navigation matter.

What are the dates for next yr?

Hobzee

Don't know about dates for next year yet. Re rewards for NPs; what I do is place the observation questions where they could easily be bypassed if you've not done your plotting correctly. That way those that do follow the route are rewarded and those going direct to other NPs will miss out. Same goes for secret checkpoints (there was one on S3) and entry of direction to CPs. But it's a fair point and something to look more closely at in future.

One problem with two sets of notes is sharing. Given the prizes on offer it would be tempting to share info. And we could make the waypoints different, but then that increases what is already a heavy workload so it's almost two events in one. And we have to have two sets of prizes in effect. So all things considered I'm pushing for it just being a tough navex and not an entry-level event. Plenty of clubs run basic navexes now.

[turps]

Robert,
One of the things we found hard was. When working with a number of different WPT's that we had to work out before we could work out the first one. These had a large area of error, due to some parts having to be rounded off. And when the wpts werent far away (less than a K). We found that we had to work them out a number of times using the different rounding off. To get the right wpt.

I don't follow why you had to plot the same NP more than once or round off?

GPS wouldnt take all the numbers. There was more than once that this gave 3 tks over 200m. Also then this was compounded on the next ???.

[Ruffy]

You've both got some really good points. For mine i'd rather just the one hard course or same C.P's but different routes getting there for easier notes??????
I agree with Hobzee.. You don't always get rewarded for your efforts. I'd rather there were more questions to prove you did the whole course. I felt ripped off a few times getting a difficult nav point and no reward for it.

We had same problems as you guys.. To much looking at map not enough paying attention to where we were going... I've got an excuse.. one up navi. There were two of you, 15 GPS's and 11 laptops. What's your excuse?
I loved they way the satges were organised although there were times when a clue really didn't have one answer but two. Are they being tricky or is it as simple as it seems??? You just never know.
I don't think i do it for the win, there's a lot of luck involved in a win, i do it for the challenge. If it wasn't as challenging it wouldn't be as good.
It's a difficult event to organise i'm sure and we all know a lot of time and effort goes into making it correct. As Hobzee said, two answers for dog question. an oversight i'm sure. But as an organiser you see something like that and think "that'd make a good question" but as a competitor you're looking for it so you see the other answer as well. Tough one.

[rmp]

Robert,
One of the things we found hard was. When working with a number of different WPT's that we had to work out before we could work out the first one. These had a large area of error, due to some parts having to be rounded off. And when the wpts werent far away (less than a K). We found that we had to work them out a number of times using the different rounding off. To get the right wpt.

I don't follow why you had to plot the same NP more than once or round off?

GPS wouldnt take all the numbers. There was more than once that this gave 3 tks over 200m. Also then this was compounded on the next ???.

Sorry, can you give me a specific example? You mean that for example you had 37.4893381912 degrees or whatever it was and the GPSR wouldn't take all the numbers after the decimal point?

[rmp]

I loved they way the satges were organised although there were times when a clue really didn't have one answer but two. Are they being tricky or is it as simple as it seems??? You just never know.
I don't think i do it for the win, there's a lot of luck involved in a win, i do it for the challenge. If it wasn't as challenging it wouldn't be as good.
It's a difficult event to organise i'm sure and we all know a lot of time and effort goes into making it correct. As Hobzee said, two answers for dog question. an oversight i'm sure. But as an organiser you see something like that and think "that'd make a good question" but as a competitor you're looking for it so you see the other answer as well. Tough one.

Every question should have one answer. Routes are created by the coordinator and checked by at least three others independently. So we often pick up these discrepancies. However, that's nothing to the level of scrutiny that 40 eagle-eyed teams will give it and so sometimes something slips through. But we are fair in the marking. If we see that our answer was X but half the field came up with Y and it couldn't have been a guess we make sure nobody is disadvantaged.

[Big Red Toy]

I did say i was taking a cow...


The level of navigation is good thou, i really enjoyed the 2 stages i got too finish, i've now got my head around how toi convert encrypted waypoints on my FX324 so these were easy, it was rob pepper's ones which needed a bit more thinking.
But like said, keep it hard as it is known as the hard navigation event

Cheers
Andrew

[Ruffy]

I did say i was taking a cow... i think you were all too drunk to understand what was going on thou

Drunk officials at a CP..... I don't think so Andrew!!! You must have been mistaken

[Hobzee]

Yes Rob we have to use discretion when scoring Nav Runs too. Sometimes 20+ teams come up with something we didn't find when setting up.

Funny that long number came up again. I was asked only for one tip but I was asked about 10 times .. how do you convert 13450.4456685 seconds into a waypoint - easy divide by 360. There are 60 seconds to a minute and 60 minutes to a degree. Anyone with a calculator on a mobile phone can work it out. Except Ruffy - his phone batteries were flat.

Rob I agree with the swapping notes problem - good point. Maybe just stick with the current formula - have 3 not so tough stages and 1 red hot chilli PEPPER stage. If a team is not up to it then they can have some sleep. Surely an inexperienced team can't expect to be a top 10 contender for a few years. Look at how many years Smithi and Aaron Carlton have been at it. Between those 2 cars alone there would be 50 years of Pajero Challenges on board.

We half expected a secret CP or question after the steel pipe (culvert pipe under road - sneaky!). Our strategy was that as the question was worth 30 points we would get it by hook or crook as it would remedy a few lateness points. We had like 10 minutes left to finish and I confess we took a U turn rather than exit to NW - the price was a missed secret CP. Bugger - of all waypoints without rewards that had to be one that did. Johnny Lewis was aparently first into that CP and he was in the second half at 3/4 point so that would have been a quiet CP for the marshals I am tipping.

[Ruffy]

Except Ruffy - his phone batteries were flat.

Two mobile phones and two calculators in the car.. all with flat batteries

Lucky i was a maths wizz at school

[The pig67]

Johnny Lewis was aparently first into that CP and he was in the second half at 3/4 point so that would have been a quiet CP for the marshals I am tipping.

At least we did something right
Jono[/quote]

[Paj-Poo]

Rob
Overall a great event, yes even your stage!
We might bitch about the difficulty in plotting some of the stages but at least it sorts the wheat from the chaff. Dont change a thing with respect to difficulty but keep an idea on how much technology is required to plot the course within a reasonable time frame. A flash GPS and a laptop will give a team more time to complete the course. I agree that most could be done with a basic GPS and a compass but we all have a time constraint as well.

We'll see you again next year if the Paj is up to it.
By the way what ever happened to the highest placed Paj prize?

regards
Sole Pajero and chaff collectors

[turps]

We'll see you again next year if the Paj is up to it.
By the way what ever happened to the highest placed Paj prize?

regards
Sole Pajero and chaff collectors

Geez your memory is crap. It wasnt the first paj prize. It was the first Mitsubishi prize. Which in the case for the last three yrs has been a badly beaten NM paj. And if we are keeping it for another yr. That CV has to be fixed.

[Ruffy]

By the way what ever happened to the highest placed Paj prize?
regards
Sole Pajero and chaff collectors

Geez your memory is crap. It wasnt the first paj prize. It was the first Mitsubishi prize.

That's strange... I have a trophy on my mantle that reads "1st Pajero"
Maybe it's your memory?????
Maybe they changed the name???

[turps]

By the way what ever happened to the highest placed Paj prize?
regards
Sole Pajero and chaff collectors

Geez your memory is crap. It wasnt the first paj prize. It was the first Mitsubishi prize.

That's strange... I have a trophy on my mantle that reads "1st Pajero"
Maybe it's your memory?????
Maybe they changed the name???

Was first Mitsubishi when we got it in 05.

[Paj-Poo]

By the way what ever happened to the highest placed Paj prize?
regards
Sole Pajero and chaff collectors

Geez your memory is crap. It wasnt the first paj prize. It was the first Mitsubishi prize.

That's strange... I have a trophy on my mantle that reads "1st Pajero"
Maybe it's your memory?????
Maybe they changed the name???

Was first Mitsubishi when we got it in 05.

Yeah, Old timers must be overtaking me.
As for the cv, it didn't get any worse on this event.. Must have at least another comp in it!
Probably lucky it wasn't attacked by a giant roo with buck teeth. I don't know what Burkie was on but he ought to ease up on it.

[rmp]

Funny that long number came up again. I was asked only for one tip but I was asked about 10 times .. how do you convert 13450.4456685 seconds into a waypoint - easy divide by 360. There are 60 seconds to a minute and 60 minutes to a degree. Anyone with a calculator on a mobile phone can work it out. Except Ruffy - his phone batteries were flat.

And that is the difference between a top competitor and an joe average. See the top guys understand the concepts and think their way around a problem, the average ones just look in the manual to see how to punch seconds into the GPSR and if it's not there claim it can't be done. Or it's claimed you need a laptop. When a laptop is mandatory we'll say so in the event minimum equipment list, but I can't see that happening for a while.

Another example is the excessive number of decimal places on some coordinates. You can't enter them in to a GPSR because it would be milimetre accuracy.

Rob I agree with the swapping notes problem - good point. Maybe just stick with the current formula - have 3 not so tough stages and 1 red hot chilli PEPPER stage. If a team is not up to it then they can have some sleep. Surely an inexperienced team can't expect to be a top 10 contender for a few years. Look at how many years Smithi and Aaron Carlton have been at it. Between those 2 cars alone there would be 50 years of Pajero Challenges on board.

We're likely to do something along those lines. The checkpoints in plain UTM, easy to find was popular. However, the thinking is that we don't cater to novices. Lots of clubs run entry-level comps now.

We half expected a secret CP or question after the steel pipe (culvert pipe under road - sneaky!). Our strategy was that as the question was worth 30 points we would get it by hook or crook as it would remedy a few lateness points. We had like 10 minutes left to finish and I confess we took a U turn rather than exit to NW - the price was a missed secret CP.

Bugger - of all waypoints without rewards that had to be one that did. Johnny Lewis was aparently first into that CP and he was in the second half at 3/4 point so that would have been a quiet CP for the marshals I am tipping.

Hmm, Section 3 certainly had a reward for every NP. The observation questions for example were all placed such that they would be missed if shortcuts were taken.

[rmp]

Rob
Overall a great event, yes even your stage!
We might bitch about the difficulty in plotting some of the stages but at least it sorts the wheat from the chaff. Dont change a thing with respect to difficulty but keep an idea on how much technology is required to plot the course within a reasonable time frame. A flash GPS and a laptop will give a team more time to complete the course. I agree that most could be done with a basic GPS and a compass but we all have a time constraint as well.

We'll see you again next year if the Paj is up to it.
By the way what ever happened to the highest placed Paj prize?

regards
Sole Pajero and chaff collectors

Thanks. Yes, more kit will help. It's not unlike a winch challenge event in that way. However, you must know how to use it. There were cars with four GPSRs and two laptops running who seemed to be struggling a little.

And everything, not most could be done with the kit we put in the minimum kit list.