Notice: We request that you don't just set up a new account at this time if you are a previous user.
If you used to be one of our moderators, please feel free to reach out to Chris via the facebook Outerlimits4x4 group and he will get you set back up with access should he need you.
Recovery:If you cannot access your old email address and don't remember your password, please click here to log a change of email address so you can do a password reset.

Oxygen Sensor Simulator

Tech Talk for Suzuki owners.

Moderators: lay80n, sierrajim

Post Reply
User avatar
Max
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Oxygen Sensor Simulator

Post by Max »

My zuk gave me a brights Servce Engine Soon light so i went to service center and they told me i have to change the O2 sensor. Ever since the light came on, i've been experiencing lower gas-mileage, the engine feels slugish in the lower revs and the exhaust smells a lot like unburned gas :roll: .
So i wanna change the sensor but, as you all know, those little bastards cost 300-350 bucks for the heated ones. So i found this article where they teach you how to build your own o2 sensor simulator. The only problem i see is that it was designed for a Supra, but as far as i know OBD2 is a standard so the design should be universal. I already bought everything and put it together and tested it with a battery to check the output and it works. I'm just afraid to burn my ECU.

The Site: http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/oxygen ... index.html

Has anyone done this or has someone solved this in an easier, safer way?

Thanx
98' Softtop Vitara, 1.6 16v EFI
Suzuki: Because you dont wanna go offroad in you $50K SUV.
User avatar
Max
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Post by Max »

BTW, who long is supposed to take for a 1.6L 16v EFI to warm up on mornings? 7-8mins? I've notices how other cars warm up much faster and STAY warm for hours after being turned off, while mine cools up in 45mins, so everytime i turn the vehicle off for more than 45mins, i gotta wait 7-8 mins until it warms up again. VERY annoying.
98' Softtop Vitara, 1.6 16v EFI
Suzuki: Because you dont wanna go offroad in you $50K SUV.
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:16 am
Location: Melbourne

Post by WaveCult »

Max wrote:BTW, who long is supposed to take for a 1.6L 16v EFI to warm up on mornings? 7-8mins? I've notices how other cars warm up much faster and STAY warm for hours after being turned off, while mine cools up in 45mins, so everytime i turn the vehicle off for more than 45mins, i gotta wait 7-8 mins until it warms up again. VERY annoying.


Wait for it to warm-up... what exactly do you mean? to get the thermostat to a point where it stays stable there for the length of the trip? That might take 5 mins... but in some 2 mins it's normally got a thermo readout on its way to the middle-band... at least in my case (same engine as you I believe).

I'm a bad example... I rarely leave it to warm up on it's own... I turn it on and in about 30seconds to 1 min, I'm off... but I do go easy on the gas until it's warm.

You might get away with buying some non-genuine sensor (as in, not made by Suzuki, as I would imagine Japanese parts over there would be most expensive, I remember a Daihatsu air filter in Portugal cost over 4 times what it costs here in Australia!)... shop around because there have to be alternatives.

Other option might be to get one off a wrecked Vitara? Just a thought... might not be a very gone one but it's what I came up with :D

Good luck and keep us posted!
User avatar
Max
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Post by Max »

Thanx Man!
I guess i can wait 2-3mins to warm up. I'll see if i can get that sensor in some junk yard around. Suzukis here are very popular so that might not be much of a problem.
About the engines, i think we have different ones. I have the EFI 1.6 16v SOHC and you have a 2.0 16v DOHC. Wanna swap?? :P
Maybe yours heats up faster because it's newer or has some gadget to make it warm faster.

I'll check for prices here, thanx for everything.!
98' Softtop Vitara, 1.6 16v EFI
Suzuki: Because you dont wanna go offroad in you $50K SUV.
Posts: 3269
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:11 pm
Location: melting gears

Post by greg »

Luis has a 1.6... (it's an early model swb grand)

with - wait for it - 15" rims :D
DMA Founding Member #1 - Now Retired
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:16 am
Location: Melbourne

Post by WaveCult »

greg wrote:Luis has a 1.6... (it's an early model swb grand)

with - wait for it - 15" rims :D



Sadly Greg's right, it's only a 1.6... and no, I don't want to swap :o) Not yet... we'll see... depending on how much fun Greg makes of it tomorrow up at Gembrook!
User avatar
Max
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Post by Max »

so noone here knows anything about oxygen sensor simulators, electronics or how to fool the ECU? Comeon, SOMEONE MUST know something about how to fool the ECU when you remove your catalitic converter!! My zook has a straight pipe from the headders to the exhaust with a small muffler between them. Comeon, how do i fool the ecu?? Where are the all-mighty gods of the suzuki world?? suzuki viagra with his 31"s? Greg?? Antt?? They all know how to rebuild a zuk with their bare hands and a 6pack of beer but cant help a humble guy to solve his O2 sensor problems?!??!?!

It's really cool to have overflowed injectors when you wanna go fast or someone wants to race you. I smoked a 1.6 VW Golf with my little zuk, but when you wanna go offroad where you want to keep the revs low where to torque is, and you hear the engine drowning in it's own fuel it's really anoying!
HELP ME GODS OF SUZUKI & BEER!
98' Softtop Vitara, 1.6 16v EFI
Suzuki: Because you dont wanna go offroad in you $50K SUV.
Posts: 4760
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 6:04 am
Location: Adelaide

Post by murcod »

Max I've seen things called MIL Eliminators used on V6 Ford Duratec engines in the USA to fool the ECU into thinking the cats are still fitted. But in that case the car has two oxy sensors- one upstream of the cat senses the oxygen content and adjusts the mixtures, the second one (which the MIL Eliminator replaces) is just used to monitor the cat is working OK.

Unless you've got a similar set up and just want to replace the second oxy sensor, you'd really need to replace it with a new one. Otherwise your mixtures will be all wrong in closed loop mode (cruising etc) and your fuel economy will be bad- or you could run your engine lean and overheat/ destroy it.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it and would try to find a second hand or new one. A lot of aftermarket parts suppliers now make oxy sensors so you may not need to buy genuine for a new one.
David
Posts: 4225
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:58 pm
Location: sunshine coast australia

Post by mud4b »

i run a vitara efi in my sierra.(this is my second now as i sold the last)the first engine had the cat punched out and no sensor,but it had one in the extractors.it ran fine.the new one has no sensor(the cat is normal)but again it has one in the extractors and runs fine.
Mud4b/ OPT, Cheap rates, Not cheap work. Search Opt- option offroad on facebook. Call or Sms 0439609525.. Sunshine coast, Eudlo, 4554.
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:16 am
Location: Melbourne

Post by WaveCult »

mud4b wrote:i run a vitara efi in my sierra.(this is my second now as i sold the last)the first engine had the cat punched out and no sensor,but it had one in the extractors.it ran fine.the new one has no sensor(the cat is normal)but again it has one in the extractors and runs fine.


No impact on fuel consumption? How much do you get out of it?

My 1.6 with an auto behind it is doing between 9.5-10.5lt/100kms (roughly 50/50 break-up between city and highway driving)...

UPDATE: managed 8.5lt/100kms average on a full tank the other day :armsup:
Last edited by WaveCult on Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Posts: 4225
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:58 pm
Location: sunshine coast australia

Post by mud4b »

no idea on that,ive never thought about it.
Mud4b/ OPT, Cheap rates, Not cheap work. Search Opt- option offroad on facebook. Call or Sms 0439609525.. Sunshine coast, Eudlo, 4554.
Posts: 4760
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 6:04 am
Location: Adelaide

Post by murcod »

mud4b wrote:i run a vitara efi in my sierra.(this is my second now as i sold the last)the first engine had the cat punched out and no sensor,but it had one in the extractors.it ran fine.the new one has no sensor(the cat is normal)but again it has one in the extractors and runs fine.


So do they run two like I was talking about- one before the cat and one after?

Or do you mean it's been moved from wherever the normal location is to in the extractors?
David
Posts: 4225
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2003 8:58 pm
Location: sunshine coast australia

Post by mud4b »

the first vitara engine came with both,but with the second engine i never got the cat with it,so im not sure but i dont run it in the cat.
Mud4b/ OPT, Cheap rates, Not cheap work. Search Opt- option offroad on facebook. Call or Sms 0439609525.. Sunshine coast, Eudlo, 4554.
Posts: 4760
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 6:04 am
Location: Adelaide

Post by murcod »

OK. If it's the same setup as the Ford the first one does the mixture measurement (important!) the second one checks the cat is working (make up your own mind on the importance of that!)

If you can remove the second one and not get an EFI fault lamp illuminating then you're in luck.
David
User avatar
Max
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Post by Max »

Thanks Everybody for all the help. I checked and my zook has the 2 o2 sensors setup. I got one of those handheld computers that check the ECU for errors and it said that my secondary O2 sensor was bad, so i guess it's because there is no cat. I think i'll either buy the MIL eliminator or install the one i built.

Also, does anyone has experienced problems downshifting? Like when you're in 1st, then you pass to 2nd and if for any reason you want to downshift to 1st again, the stick gets REALLY hard like if something is blocking you from downshifting. I's really annoying on speed bumps where you have to be in 1st. I need to almost come to a complete stop before it lets me downshift. What could this be?
98' Softtop Vitara, 1.6 16v EFI
Suzuki: Because you dont wanna go offroad in you $50K SUV.
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:16 am
Location: Melbourne

Post by WaveCult »

Max wrote:Also, does anyone has experienced problems downshifting? Like when you're in 1st, then you pass to 2nd and if for any reason you want to downshift to 1st again, the stick gets REALLY hard like if something is blocking you from downshifting. I's really annoying on speed bumps where you have to be in 1st. I need to almost come to a complete stop before it lets me downshift. What could this be?


That's the way it's meant to be... something about synchromesh (or lack thereof) which I can't explain :D

Surely someone'll be able to explain it properly, but what you can do is synchronise the engine speed with the shaft's speed so that 1st will kick in.

Typically 1st won't go in above 20kms/h or something like that because of differences in engine and wheel speed and 1st and Reverse typically don't synchronise on their own... but it is possible and actually reasonably easy to do by adapting your driving style.

On the Charade and the Terios I manage to do this at 50kms/h with no problem (and no real reason) by revving the car to the RPM range it would be in if it were in 1st, before letting the clutch go.

So theory is... if you're down-shifting, rev it a bit before letting the clutch go... if you're up-shifting let the revs fall with the clutch down before letting the clutch go.

It's actually quite simple. I'm just bad at exlpaining that's all :D

Hmmm... attempting to explain... drive in 2nd through the speed bump... say you're on 1000rpm, tap the gas taking it up to 3000 or 3500 with the clutch down and as the revs drop try to ease 1st in... when it's in synch it'll go in smooth as always... (you can feel it when it's in sink if you have the stick leaning into 1st, with little pressure... when you feel no resistence - or less resistence - that's when it'll slip in). Give it a bit of practice until you get the right feel for it. Don't fight the gear-stick, if it doesn't want to go, don't push it too hard as you're waiting for the right revs to be reached... you should be able to just feel it...

Typically it's Reverse that grinds a bit on some cars... the solution there is to (while stopped) get a synchronised gear in (eg: 3rd) and then slip it into Reverse and voila! :)

If you need further help let me know... I'll just borrow dad's car and get him to film it :) (mine's an auto remember?)

It's actually pretty similar to what you should be doing when down-shifting through a winding road to maintain speed control... you tap the gas so that when the gear kicks in, it's already in the right rev-range avoiding too much loss of speed and avoiding having your passengers curse at you for throwing them around with your gear-shifting. :D

Cheers,



Luis
User avatar
Max
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:25 pm
Location: Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Post by Max »

You're the man, Luis!
Thanks pal
98' Softtop Vitara, 1.6 16v EFI
Suzuki: Because you dont wanna go offroad in you $50K SUV.
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests