Amature Electronics

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:18 am

Over the last week or so I've been having some electrical issues with the Ferwoaza. Basically, leave the car alone for a few hours and the battery would be flat...

So I thought I'd post up info on how I traced the problem and resolved it. I really shouldn't say Amature tho....am a qualified Electrical Engineer hehe.

A digital multimeter is highly recommended. Dick Smith currently have a model for sale for around $23, and you get 2 for the price of 1! Can't beat that

Anyway...got the car started, gave it a good run. Checked voltage on Battery. 12.78 Volts. Kept monitoring the voltage, noticed it would slowly drop 0.01 every 20 seconds or so...I had a voltage leak :cry:

Bastard of a problem to find sometimes...

Okay...1st to eliminate the alternator. Started up car, checked volts on battery, 14.5...yep...that's charging her all right...alternator is cool.

Now to find the leak. Basically, put the mulitmeter on the battery, and pull a fuse from the in car fuse box, check to see if volt drop is still happening. I did this for a few and found the volt drop stopped when I pulled the CIG fuse...ahhhh...figures...I have a few accessories hanging off this powerline, namely the CB Radio and the CD Player.

Okay...unplug power from CB (easier). Nope....still dropping.

Okay...remove and disconnect teh CD Player....volt drop stops..houston we have a winner. I have a few spare batteries and bits lying around so I hook up the radio to another battery in the shed. Yep...volts are dropping on the meter...bugger..

Checked all the wires and everything is insulated, so looks like there is an internal short with the player, will have to replace...

But that folks has stopped me getting a flat battery every morning

That fuse box (under the dash) is a gold mine when it comes to finding problems like this...1st place I check if anything stops working as it should...

Post by **ShinyDiscoBalls** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 9:41 am

Interesting... Try this one Murray.

My horn stopped working about 14 months ago. When I took it in for a service I asked the mechanic to check it out. He couldn't find the horn so I stopped getting my car serviced there.

Anyway I checked the fuses, all ok. Checked the connections in the steering wheel, all ok. Checked wiring, all ok. Havent a volt meter but that is my next thing.

The odd thing is I wired up the spotties and they worked fine for about 3 months. Suddenly dead. Checked the in line fuse. Blown. Replace it and it blows on activation. I've given up on that.

Then my hazards stopped working completely and indicators wouldn't work when ignition was off. :bad-words:

After I had my alternator incident in Newnes suddenly my hazards and indicators work fine. The horn worked again for about 1/2 hour. Haven't retried the spotties yet.

It's all too twillight zone for me. Any ideas on how to trace the problem as I'm as electrically minded as a kid with a fork and a power point.

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:02 am

Sounds like your having a lot of fun there

My horn (and hazards) stopped working a little while back. It was definetly the fuse...did you replace it even tho it may have looked okay?

I also had a major problem with spotlight fuses blowing all the time. I now run them straight from the battery with no fuse

Try using a larger fuse, and check where your cables connect to the spotties, make sure everything is sealed, (electrical tape is your friend) no metal on metal contact and your ground connection is good (easiest to find something else connected to ground and use the same spot).

With your horn etc. I'd concentrate on 1 thing at a time. Start with the horn. Replace that fuse regardless. If still not working try this :

Get yourself a multimeter. I'd start where the horn activates (circuit connects when you press it) and see if there is voltage there. If there is then the horn should work. If it is not working, put the volt meter on the horn end, make sure there is voltage going there when the horn is pressed. If neither is okay, start following cables to junctions. Every time you hit a fuse or a cable join, test for voltage and see if it is present...

Post by **ShinyDiscoBalls** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 12:38 pm

Thanks Murray,

Have tried replacing the spotlight fuse with larger one but still blows. will check the other bits.

Have also replaced the fuse on the horn but will get a volt meter and check as you have advised.

Thanks for the info

Website · Post by **murcod** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:16 pm

What size fuses are you blowing; and how many watts are your spotties??

Post by **ShinyDiscoBalls** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:20 pm

Blowing fuses all the way to 30A - haven't tried beyond that as proving expensive on fuses and don't know if there are any higher ampage. Has 120w globes.

And I checked the earth wire. I used an existing earth wire.

What do you reackon?

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:25 pm

Something is drawing too much current. You should be able to check what Amps are flowing by putting the volt meter in series with the connection....basically "In line" rather than straight across...

Easiest way is to put the multimeter in place of the fuse eg Negative on the battery side and Positive on the lights side. Put the multimeter on an AMP setting probably pretty high as your blowing 30A fuses...

See what kinda current is being pushed out...see if it drops the closer you get to the spotties (put it in series somewhere else...does it drop with only one spottie connected..are they even etc? It looks like a short somewhere is pulling a heap o current..

Post by **ShinyDiscoBalls** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:47 pm

Will give it a go... but not this weekend. My wife is complaining as I spent most of last weekend sorting out the car. I had mud inside the rubber door seals... :shock:

Also I took off the sill trims and upon lifting carpet noticed a lot of dry mud... looks like the previous owner liked the mud also. So I've stripped the whole inside now to give it a good clean at some stage.... and the mrs is not impressed...

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 1:58 pm

Do what I did..buy her a zook, get her addicted :lol:

Think of electricity as water, it follows the path of least resistance to ground. If you have a nice big short somewhere, all the current will try to go that path, causing problems.

You may also want to look at the wire you are using for the spotlights..may need one that can carry a higher capacity amperage..

Website · Post by **murcod** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:18 pm

The 120w spotties should draw around 10 amps each. Maybe try removing the globe from one at a time and see if that fixes it. The current surge when they first turn on will also be well over 10amps each, so you would probably need at least the 30amp fuse for both.

With measuring using a multimeter, just be careful as you'll need to find one that can measure that much current. Most digital ones will only measure a maximum of 10amps. Don't leave it measuring the current for too long either- lots of current flowing through the meter = lots of heat...

I've wired my spotties using a relay that's got two outputs on it and wired each light totally seperately. Plus I've run the earth wires back to the chassis bolt just behind the battery. They weren't working when I bought it because the last owner had tried to use the spottie chassis as the earth.

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:03 pm

Well, I picked up a new CD Player for the rig on Saturday. Installation went easy, cept my right front isn't working properly, "may" have the wires round the wrong way..will play with tonight, seem to recall having this problem when I put the old system in...just can't remember what it was :lol:

Player is a 4x50 watt jobbie and the rears sound awesome, the stock Daihatsu rear speakers have always suprised the hell outta me.

Post by **ShinyDiscoBalls** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:09 pm

Yeah my rear speakers used to surprise me too until 2 weeks ago I tore the cones on them... I guess they didn't like me playing Sepultura at 2,000 armagedons... :twisted:

Post by **RockyMan** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:51 pm

I found that most of my electrical problems are related to trailer plug.
Round or flat - you get some mud or water and the fuses go bang, bang specially with indicators , stop lights and horn.

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 1:39 pm

Rockyman : Yeah...I've stopped having problems from that since I ripped it off and taped it all up

FerociousFeroza, must have been getting some nice distortion to do that!! ehhehe. What are you replacing them with?

I'm thinking about how to upgrade my sound a bit more...possibly put new rears in and move the rears up front, and maybe an amp driving a 10" sub...still trying to get my head around a few things tho...

Post by **SimplyPV** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:52 pm

ok... sound system... now personally.. i THINK i have the best sound system incoruprated into a rocky... :finger:

i run a pioneer primier head unit, part # DEH-P640 (best at its time, about a year ago.) its 50 wattsx4 with built in equalizer an crossover. then my 2 front 4 inch speakers in the dash... are garbage.. as far as i know.. they are still the stock speakers an they are a :bad-words:

to get to... so i jus left em there an opted for a mtx marine hardcase speaker mounted on the dash.. an i tell you what, it thumps... i dont have the part # off the top of my head but if anyone needs it, i can find out... as for the rear speakers... i'm runnin 2 6-1/2 inch pioneer premier part # TS-615 with pp injection cones. they were pretty cheap... about $75 us on sale... plus discount cuz i know the people. i could get some better ones.. but man these can more than handle the power i put out. i also run a pioneer primier amp, part # GM-X352... 2 channel, 200 wattx2 max with built in crossover. i need some stronger ones so i can power some BETTER subs.. the ones i currently have are pioneer primier 10 inch subsx2... they are 400 watt max imp speakers... they are pretty decent... but there are better ones out there. i would reconmend gettin a pioneer primier head unit with an audiobon amp or mtx amp an mtx speakers.. mtx are pretty much top of the line when it comes to amps an speakers. look at it this way... you get what you pay for.. that simple. i'm happy with my system, it sounds great an jus shakes the truck... if i was to upgrade it.. i'd have to upgrade the entire system... cuz where its at right now.. its perfect.. so thats a project thats not in the "urgent" basket at the moment.

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:07 pm

Shane's setup outdoes us all I think (he's not on this board)

Sound System in his Feroza is basically:

Sony Head Unit

Rear Speakers
4 x 900w Sony Xplode Amps
4 x 12" 900w Sony Xplode Subs
2 x 200w (think) 6x9's

Front Speakers
2 x 100w Mids
2 x 100w Splits

He started off with one 12" sub which I helped him install, then he went and got another...last I saw he was getting a full custom fibreglass setup for the back of the Feroza (no seats) to hold 4 of the bastards!!!! :shock:

Post by **SimplyPV** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:08 pm

wow... talk about overdoing it... :roll:

yeah but i'm not giving up presious cargo space an 4x strength... so i think i got it made.... :finger:

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:13 pm

He's going for comps or something like that...ahh well...he'll be deaf before I am

All I really need to do now is fix the front right speaker (wiring issue..no biggie) and then look at putting a sub in.

Think I only want a 10" sub, rather the sharp base than the sound you get from a 12".

My head unit actually has preamp outs! A first for me hehe.

Thinking of a 2ch amp that does 200-250w in mono mode driving a matched Sub. Should give me all the base I need without needing to put extra screws in the trim to keep it on (SHANE!! :lol:

). Happy with my rears and fronts as they are now (stock..I have the fade towards the rear anyway...)

Post by **SimplyPV** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:16 pm

hmm interesting... ok whatever you do... see if you can get ur sub to run off of your amp, then use no fade at all... or if u want.. use a little bit of fade up towards the front.. an filter out your freq.... have all your low end freq to the to the subs and low-mid freq to your rear stock speakers an your mid-high freq to your front stock speakers... you should be able to crank it a bit without having to worry about disortion or blowing em.. let me know how it goes.

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 4:22 pm

Yeah, that would be the next step...

Initially, get the sub in (low pass filtered of course). Set the base levels on the HU back so that it's supplying mainly mid and high range signals. Then when I have a bit more dosh I'll put in proper filters to let through the right signals to the stock speakers...

BTW anyone know the actual specs of the stock speakers?

Post by **ShinyDiscoBalls** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 5:43 pm

SimplyPV wrote:hmm interesting... ok whatever you do... see if you can get ur sub to run off of your amp, then use no fade at all... or if u want.. use a little bit of fade up towards the front.. an filter out your freq.... have all your low end freq to the to the subs and low-mid freq to your rear stock speakers an your mid-high freq to your front stock speakers... you should be able to crank it a bit without having to worry about disortion or blowing em.. let me know how it goes.

You guys want to know how much I know about HI FI equipment? When I read what PV wrote above I read.... blah blah blah blah blah blah blah speakers. Blah blah blah blah distorsion. :shock:

I'm just going to go into a car stereo joint and request some new speakers front and back and whatever it takes for them not to fall apart when I play my metal at 16 million decibels and voila! I still have the original tape deck in it and all I do is play my MD player via an adapter. 1 MD = 5 hours of music... and no jumping disks while off roading...

Post by **Mathew** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:24 pm

Dont know about the Feroza but when the original speakers out to replace them with new ones the original 4 inch was only rated to 15 watts.
They were dumped for two 80 watt pioneers and made a huge difference and add a couple of 6 inch three ways in the back seat area and you have a sweet sounding system.And cheap ofcourse.

Website · Post by **murcod** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 7:30 pm

So how hard are the front speakers to replace??? I had a quick look once and decided it looked too hard to get at the screws.

Post by **MJHsurfin** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 11:32 pm

Did the same thing myself - replaced the fronts with Pioneer 70W 4" 3 ways & the rears with Pioneer 150W 6" 3 ways - huge difference.
The fronts aren't that hard to get to - the passenger side you need to remove the glovebox & then there is reasonable access to behind the speaker. The drivers side was a bit easier if I remember right after you remove the panel under the Steering Wheel. You need a good Stumpy Screwdriver & it helps if you can twist your body into a pretzel

The Speakers are actually screwed into a metal plate & it is this metal plate that screws into the dash from behind.
Was going to do the same for the Surf, but found it already had excellent Panosonic 4" 100Ws - but one interesting thing I did find was that the Speakers had a foam ( or cardboard ) cover over the rear of them - I experimented with & without this covering the rear cones & found they made a HUGE difference - the bass was over double ( or sounded like it ) with the covers fitted. Knowing this now I would be very keen to track down a pair of these for the Feroza 4" Fronts if I were doing it again. I assume any good stereo shop would have them ??

Later - Mike H.

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 8:36 am

Mike sounds like someone installed some custom baffles for the speakers. Search the net for custom speaker boxes / custom kick panels and there should be heaps of info on baffles and how they can improve sound a lot.

It's interesting to learn that the best pro setups apparently don't even have rear speakers...they are all up front. Only thing that usually goes in the back are subs due to space considerations..They use high and mids in the front to set the sound stage (so it's like your sitting in the audience) and box the subs up correctly so that they also sound like they are coming from the front.

Website · Post by **murcod** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 9:26 am

My parents had one of the first V6 Camrys and I remember it had speakers in the same spot as the Feroza under the dash. But, they had a full plastic enclosure behind them!

Any speaker sitting in free air (like the Feroza under the dash) is going to generate SFA in the way of bass. Any type of rear enclosure should help.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Tue Oct 14, 2003 3:07 pm

yes that is correct mur.. that was how i set up my speakers.... but try to break it down a bit more.. it opens up the sweet spot an allows more people to enjoy the sound..

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