Series releafing.

[Slunnie]

I'd chatted about this before in IsuzuRovers ledgendary leaf spring modifications thread, but things have changed.

The Jigger has had a ZF/LT230 conversion amonst other things. This has moved the transfer mounts back a bit, enough to worry me that my precious Tom Woods front long slip will come out when articulating hard. The jigger is to run 37's which were ordered today, but they will rub on the back of the headlights. No prob, the plan was to space the entire front clip forward by 40mm using RHS against the firewall. Likewise the bullbar will also need to have the mounts rebootied to bring it forward also for tyre clearance.

So I get some measurements and find the Series front springs are 460mm to the bolt, though Toy LC40/42/46 fronts and rears will bring the diff back by 42-45mm which will solve a lot of probs and bring the wheelbase back to 107" which I like. The LC fronts also have the same free camber and the rears have 2" greater free camber though I'm not sure what the rates are.

Toy is standard shackle, LR is reverse shackle

The Diff nugget looks to be offset enough from the sump, the axles look like they will miss the sump by miles, the steering looks like it will be fine, but loses the parrallel geometry by 45mm, the shackle points look ok to clear any riggers, the shaft will have the slip joint put back to where I would have liked it to have been. The Xmember has also be scalloped now for greater travel, so contact should be ok also and the tyres should clear the firewall by about 600 kilometres.

Apart from redoing bumpstop location possibly upper shock mounts and having to remount the shackles.... can anybody smarter than me see any other reason that may cause me to crack enough to torch the #@%%er! if something goes badly?

It just seems to easy to be right. Landy springs are 2.5" wide, I'm not sure what Toyotas are, though I'm assuming close.... perhaps that'll be the issue!

TIA for any comments.

[ISUZUROVER]

Sound like a good idea. If you give me the specs of the LC springs I can calculate the rates for you.

As for the shackle position - the landie shackle setup is better IMHO, but slightly more prone to axle tramp.

[Slunnie]

Thanks for this Ben! I'll leave it with the shackles at the rear of the spring.

At this stage the info I surfed up from Ironman and the spring that I thought may be a really good option is:

TOY034B
Length: 505mm/630mm
Free Camber: 205mm
Leaf No.: 7

They apparently fit the rear of a 80-84 LC40/42/46

the other option was for the same vehicle, but its front springs which may need more massaging for less travel are:

TOY04B
Length: 502mm/603mm
Free Camber: 165mm
Leaf No.: 7


I'll try to sus out more information from Ironman if they will be kind to me.

[ISUZUROVER]

Thanks for this Ben! I'll leave it with the shackles at the rear of the spring.

At this stage the info I surfed up from Ironman and the spring that I thought may be a really good option is:

TOY034B
Length: 505mm/630mm
Free Camber: 205mm
Leaf No.: 7

They apparently fit the rear of a 80-84 LC40/42/46

the other option was for the same vehicle, but its front springs which may need more massaging for less travel are:

TOY04B
Length: 502mm/603mm
Free Camber: 165mm
Leaf No.: 7


I'll try to sus out more information from Ironman if they will be kind to me.

I will need the widths and the leaf thicknesses as well (may not all be the same).

Rather than use aftermarket (ironman) springs, why not get a set of good 2nd hand springs. You will probably have to play around with them anyway - an LC is pretty heavy.

EDIT - a few series guys in the US/Canada use chev rears in the rear and series rears up front - seems to work well for them.

[Slunnie]

I will need the widths and the leaf thicknesses as well (may not all be the same).

Rather than use aftermarket (ironman) springs, why not get a set of good 2nd hand springs. You will probably have to play around with them anyway - an LC is pretty heavy.

EDIT - a few series guys in the US/Canada use chev rears in the rear and series rears up front - seems to work well for them.

Thats a good plan Ben. Hopefully I can get my hands on some springs and look to break them down a bit to suit. I'm hoping that Turbo4t who I get all of my Toy parts from will have what I'm chasing. When I get something in my hands, I'll measure them up. Thanks for this Ben.

I wonder what the Chev rears end up doing to the whole show? Interestingly also, for the rears it looks like LC70/71/73/74 rears will drop straight in and are within 1mm for length, sends the rear axle back by 45mm which will also suit me well, though I'm not sure that the offset bolt will give as much flex ultimately. LC60 springs for the rear are almost the same, pushing the axle back by 35mm but are 9mm shorter than the Landys. I expect irrespective though, the spring pack will have to be stripped and reduced. The implication with these springs though, is that they would have to be installed backward, so the end which is normally leading would be trailing. I'm not sure what the implications of that will be, though I suppose time will tell.

I checked out the fit for Landy rears up front, and it looks like its probably easier to fit Toy springs due to the offset bolts and not needing to fab the dumbirons. I suspect travel differences will depend on which Toy spring is used though. The LC40/42/46 rears up front look like they'll work quite well with a minimum of fab, though they also will have to be stripped and reduced to make them flex.

[Slunnie]

After being on the phone yabbering time away that I shuold have been spending working, I found that Ironman were just so exceptionally helpful, and they were going out of their way by a long shot to try to help. This was Christian the suspension guru there that was helping me, and he understood really well what I was trying to achieve and happy with the idea of stripping packs and have resets done.

Anyway, we found a better spring for the rear of the ute... I'm hoping. Its for a Patrol front that we didn't see in Aus. It is spring NIS021B. It is 650mm from the front to the pin, and then 580 to the rear with an overall length of 1230mm. It is also 60mm wide. There are 8x6mm leafs in the pack and is a single stage spring. It has a main leaf, military wrap and then a full length followed by shortening lower leafs. This spring is 2.5mm narrower than the landy ones, 10mm longer and will move the rear axle back by 40mm. The free camber on the spring is 200mm. I'm assuming with this spring pack that leaves will need to be removed to soften it up.

For the front, the TOY034B still seems to be the go. Its a rear LC40 spring. It is 505mm to the bolt and then 630mm to the rear shackle with an overall length of 1135mm which is 214mm longer than factory and will set the front axle rearward by 45mm. These springs are 70mm wide, with 7x6mm leafs, with the main, then Mil wrap, 3rd full length and the rest shorten. The free camber on these are 205mm. Likewise, it looks like these will have to be stripped down and rebuilt to work out an appropriate spring rate.

[ISUZUROVER]

After being on the phone yabbering time away that I shuold have been spending working, I found that Ironman were just so exceptionally helpful, and they were going out of their way by a long shot to try to help. This was Christian the suspension guru there that was helping me, and he understood really well what I was trying to achieve and happy with the idea of stripping packs and have resets done.

Anyway, we found a better spring for the rear of the ute... I'm hoping. Its for a Patrol front that we didn't see in Aus. It is spring NIS021B. It is 650mm from the front to the pin, and then 580 to the rear with an overall length of 1230mm. It is also 60mm wide. There are 8x6mm leafs in the pack and is a single stage spring. It has a main leaf, military wrap and then a full length followed by shortening lower leafs. This spring is 2.5mm narrower than the landy ones, 10mm longer and will move the rear axle back by 40mm. The free camber on the spring is 200mm. I'm assuming with this spring pack that leaves will need to be removed to soften it up.

For the front, the TOY034B still seems to be the go. Its a rear LC40 spring. It is 505mm to the bolt and then 630mm to the rear shackle with an overall length of 1135mm which is 214mm longer than factory and will set the front axle rearward by 45mm. These springs are 70mm wide, with 7x6mm leafs, with the main, then Mil wrap, 3rd full length and the rest shorten. The free camber on these are 205mm. Likewise, it looks like these will have to be stripped down and rebuilt to work out an appropriate spring rate.

Sounds good - are those lengths eye-eye with the spring flat (no camber)

are the leaves square cut or tapered at the ends?

The rears are 3.5mm narrower than series springs (2.5") and 0.42" longer. Should pretty much bolt straight in.

I make the rates 190-205 lb/in for the rears (sorry - my spreadsheet is in imperial) and 255-270 lb/in for the fronts. Sounds about right, though the fronts are possibly on the stiff side, depending on your engine weight. The range of values above is because I need to double check the stiffness factors for your springs (depends on factors like the end cut and the offset centre bolt)

That will probably be quite balanced, though you could pull a leaf from front and/or rear if you want - That would drop the rates to 170/220 R/F. The SWB rears you were thinking about are 160ish.

[ISUZUROVER]

Free Camber

Are those springs the same L - R ??? Landie springs have quite a bit more free camber on the DS.

If it was a stock 109" you would need about 280mm rear and 170 mm front with those springs. However you said you have a fairly light tray on the rear.

Unless you can get the weight of each corner, I would just bolt them on then fine tune them. There is a chance it might be a bit low in the rear and on the RHS. But you can just see how it flexes and rides first. If you get them reset now, and decide you want to remove leaves later, you will need to reset them again...

[Slunnie]

Absolutely. those spring lengths are all measured along the main leaf. A good question though re the ends of the leaves, and something which I'm really uncertain of.

Actually those rates sound like they wouldn't be bad with a leaf removed which would give 220F and 170 in the rear. actually, I think that this would be right on the money. Thank you for doing those calcs.

Ben, how much travel are you getting out of your front end? I'm now just wondering if it still worth reshackling, though it may be all different as my bolt will be 40mm further back.

Actually, the free camber will also be something to work out.....280mm is heeeeeeps! Though I'm really not sure if that is something within the boundaries of what would be considered normal.

I was on the phone to King this afternoon also, to sus out what the deal is with having springs made to suit and just not stuff around. It seems I could buy Ironman for $330/end + reseting or have King do customs which will suit for $250-320 per end and be done with it.

To go the King route I can measure everything installed and send the springs to them for measurement, or measure everything, and then give them the data regarding what I want in the spring so that they can design and make it all up. Like Ironman, King don't necessarily spec leaf suspension in rates, but tend to think that its more suck and see with an educated guess and calculation - and so they rate with leaves etc. It also seems that with leaves, you can spec a loaded camber, and also a free camber... unlike coils where the free length is just what you end up with afte working out your installed length and rate. Sorry if I'm thinking the basics are really interesting, I've always been a coils man. Anyway, the free camber they may have to work out based on the ride height and stiffness for each spring, though he seemed dine with the prospect of developing the springs for this type of application

The other thing which I thought was interesting, is that King seem to start leafs at 6mm and then get thicker from there. LR on the other hand I think were back at a bit over 4mm??? and then got thicker from there.

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben, how much travel are you getting out of your front end?

I get about 15" at each end. measured at the hubs. This is with series axles (55" WMS).

Actually, the free camber will also be something to work out.....280mm is heeeeeeps! Though I'm really not sure if that is something within the boundaries of what would be considered normal.

Not really, My DS rear was set at 320 mm when I built mine - though this was the upper stage of a 2-stage spring.

It seems I could buy Ironman for $330/end + reseting or have King do customs which will suit for $250-320 per end and be done with it.

Custom springs are not a bad idea. The only comment I will make though is that I have never seen aftermarket springs made from as good quality steel as OE springs.

If you know the geometry and weight on each corner you can design whatever you want. Knowing what you want in terms of static loaded camber is very important.

I learnt when I did mine that I needed to allow about 1" extra free camber to allow for the springs settling.

The other thing which I thought was interesting, is that King seem to start leafs at 6mm and then get thicker from there. LR on the other hand I think were back at a bit over 4mm??? and then got thicker from there.

LR spring leaves started around 4.2mm. In theory, thinner leaves are better as the stress differential/gradient between the faces of each leaf is less, so the chances of failure is reduced. That said, I have seen more thin leaves fail than thick - however the thin leaves do bend very nicely.

The downside is that you need a LOT more thin leaves to make the same overall pack stiffness, which means a LOT more unsprung weight. e.g. 7x6 mm (= 42 mm pack) will give you around the same rate as 12x4.4 mm (48.5mm pack).

These days, it is pretty much impossible to buy anything thinner than 5 mm.

Aftermarket LR front springs which should be 9x4.2 mm are now 9x5 mm - which increases the rate from 220lb/in to 315lb/in!!!

[Slunnie]

Ben, I'm sorry I hadn't thanked you for this.

Q....

Is a leaf spring like a coil spring, in that if you take the same spring and increase its free camber by 1", then will that result in the loaded camber being also 1" higher?

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben, I'm sorry I hadn't thanked you for this.

Q....

Is a leaf spring like a coil spring, in that if you take the same spring and increase its free camber by 1", then will that result in the loaded camber being also 1" higher?

No worries - happy to help.

Basically yes. Leaves and coils are similar in most respects. The only major difference is that leaves have friction between the leaves, which means they are self-damping to some respect, and shocks aren't as necessary.

[Slunnie]

Excellent, thanks for this Ben.

As my thoughts continue to evolve on here:

I was thinking about shelf SWB 2" springs reset to 3" with the front springs leading half extended 40mm and the o/a spring length extended by 40mm which will probably give me at a guess something around 190lb/in using military shackles which probably will need the centre pin removed/relocated.

The the rears reset from 2" to 3" and manufactured with the bolt 40mm rearward which would probably give me something around 170lb/in.

Just thinking that you're already getting pretty good flex happening from factory length leaves and it cuts the development and data right down for King Springs and me if I can spec a modified version of what the specs and data they already have. I can't see that my ute with V8 and ally tray would be heavier than a SWB wagon. That should still allow me to do other mods later like replace the sill tanks for a rear tank etc.

[Slunnie]

Not to sweat... King would rather do full custom due to leaf spacing etc to even out the stresses.

Interestingly though, their leaves for the SWB are

Front
410mm/410mm 65mm wide and then 9x5mm with camber of 145/155mm

Rears
610/610mm, 65mm wide, 1x6mm main and 10x5mm with a camber of 200/210mm.

I'm not sure how the leaf ends were cut.

They sounded very stiff for SWB springs to me!

[ISUZUROVER]

Not to sweat... King would rather do full custom due to leaf spacing etc to even out the stresses.

Interestingly though, their leaves for the SWB are

Front
410mm/410mm 65mm wide and then 9x5mm with camber of 145/155mm

Rears
610/610mm, 65mm wide, 1x6mm main and 10x5mm with a camber of 200/210mm.

I'm not sure how the leaf ends were cut.

They sounded very stiff for SWB springs to me!

They sound VERY stiff.

My aftermarket front springs were 9x5mm leaves. The 9-leaf SWB springs should be 220lb/in (using 4.4 and 4.2mm leaves). Making them from 5mm spring steel increases the rate to 315lb/in - they were stiff as a board and didn't flex at all. I needed to take 3 leaves out - my fronts are 6x5mm.

Do you really think you will be as light as a SWB wagon?

I would go around 220-240 lb/in front and 170-200 lb/in rear. If you can work out exactly what lengths and static loaded camber you want I can give you my opinion.

If you can get the weight of each corner though, there is a 95% chance you can get everything right first go.

[Slunnie]

They sound VERY stiff.

My aftermarket front springs were 9x5mm leaves. The 9-leaf SWB springs should be 220lb/in (using 4.4 and 4.2mm leaves). Making them from 5mm spring steel increases the rate to 315lb/in - they were stiff as a board and didn't flex at all. I needed to take 3 leaves out - my fronts are 6x5mm.

Do you really think you will be as light as a SWB wagon?

I would go around 220-240 lb/in front and 170-200 lb/in rear. If you can work out exactly what lengths and static loaded camber you want I can give you my opinion.

If you can get the weight of each corner though, there is a 95% chance you can get everything right first go.

Interestingly I've just done a leaf count on it, and it has 9 on the front which should equate to 203lb/in and 8 on the rear which should be 368lb/in if the OE specs are to be gone by.

Its an interesting point about the weights. I'm guessing that it will be lighter than a SWB - probably if we're looking at sprung weight. The V8 you've said, and I've also subsequently read is lighter than the 4pot that came out of it, thought I'm not sure by how much. I do think that the ZF/LT230 will be heavier than the old tranny, so that may very well even out the front weight or increase it again. When I stripped my old shorty into a ute I did think that the rear half of the bodywork (tub and metal sides/roof) were heavy, and even on the pallet jack they didn't necessarily feel ally light at all, and that was without the rear door which also has some weight in it. The tray on this one is all alloy, and although I haven't lifted it, I cant imagine it weighing much. Actually, the only thing in the ute that seems to weigh and isn't driveline is the firewall and glass. Everything else is as light as - well, until the bar/winch get mounted I guess....

I guess ultimately though, the weighbridge will tell the story, though this does have a fairly high unsprung weight. I'll get it on the weighbridge as soon as I can, though I'll have to estimate the unsprung weight.

For the rates, I'd like to try to keep them low to maintain flex and a uniform footprint when in the rough. F230lb/in, R300-340lb/in is what I run my lardy D2 at, which is quite literally 1000kg heavier according to the rego papers on the ute and the weighbridge ticket on the D2. Its not an issue for me if the utes suspension comes down on the bumpstops when articulating, it's more about controlling the axle wrap that I worry about.

The current loaded camber is 120mm at the front and 83mm in the rear which I think sits level despite the differences in camber. What I would like to have at the end of it all would be F170-195mm and rear 133-158mm. There are a whole stack of reasons not to go over 3" lift, but 2-3" is what I'm looking for, hopefully closer to 3".

[Yorker]

EDIT - a few series guys in the US/Canada use chev rears in the rear and series rears up front - seems to work well for them.

Those 1/2 ton Chevrolet pickup springs are really popular with the Toyota crowd in the US- I think that is where Timm Cooper etc. got the idea from- They are what he had on his 109(the ont Ike Goss has now)
(I think the front springs are 109 SW rears?)

They are really flexy because they are so much longer- like 63" long, some info on them is here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... adid=20665

http://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyota-tr ... -swap.html

Anyway maybe that helps. I have a set of them that is awaiting a future project but I have had no hands on experience with them.

[ISUZUROVER]

The current loaded camber is 120mm at the front and 83mm in the rear which I think sits level despite the differences in camber. What I would like to have at the end of it all would be F170-195mm and rear 133-158mm. There are a whole stack of reasons not to go over 3" lift, but 2-3" is what I'm looking for, hopefully closer to 3".

That's strange that you have less camber at the back but it sits level???

I think 200ish (winch and BB weight dependant) in the front and 170-200 in the rear should work well. Though with a really soft rear I would allow a bit extra in case there is any sag (better for it to sit slightly higher in the rear than lower).

[Slunnie]

Yorker, thank you for that info! I've been checking it out.

That's strange that you have less camber at the back but it sits level???

I think 200ish (winch and BB weight dependant) in the front and 170-200 in the rear should work well. Though with a really soft rear I would allow a bit extra in case there is any sag (better for it to sit slightly higher in the rear than lower).

Thats a really good point. When I measured the springs I was just assuming that the differences were related to the mount locations and thought nothing more of it. I had never noticed it to be sitting low at the rear. I've just been out with the nipple gauge and I think you're right! It seems that it is sitting right down at the rear. That was well spotted!




I was thinking about the rates the other day and I've been a bit arrogant about it. I do like the rates you've suggest and will have to be guided by you as to what works. The bar for the front is a steel Defender ARB bar (not mounted), and the plan is to trim the wings off, but maintain the upper tube work for tyre clearance, protection and later to exo and flare guards off. The winch is a high mount. hmmmm, point taken!

I also dont think it'll be too bad to have some extra ride height on it because of the wheelbase. I think/hope the track will deal with that.

[lokka]

Yorker, thank you for that info! I've been checking it out.

That's strange that you have less camber at the back but it sits level???

I think 200ish (winch and BB weight dependant) in the front and 170-200 in the rear should work well. Though with a really soft rear I would allow a bit extra in case there is any sag (better for it to sit slightly higher in the rear than lower).

Thats a really good point. When I measured the springs I was just assuming that the differences were related to the mount locations and thought nothing more of it. I had never noticed it to be sitting low at the rear. I've just been out with the nipple gauge and I think you're right! It seems that it is sitting right down at the rear. That was well spotted!




I was thinking about the rates the other day and I've been a bit arrogant about it. I do like the rates you've suggest and will have to be guided by you as to what works. The bar for the front is a steel Defender ARB bar (not mounted), and the plan is to trim the wings off, but maintain the upper tube work for tyre clearance, protection and later to exo and flare guards off. The winch is a high mount. hmmmm, point taken!

I also dont think it'll be too bad to have some extra ride height on it because of the wheelbase. I think/hope the track will deal with that.

Nice shed the series is lookin good too

[Yorker]

That is a cool looking truck! I have a set of threashed IIA Wings/Fenders that I've always wanted to cut like the Australian Military Fenders but somehow IO've just not had the balls to do it, I just don't trust myself to eyeball it off a picture and get it proportioned right...

Do you have access to those Chevy truck springs over there? They really do work well but I have always been kind of skeptical of their load carrying capacity because they look so thin and feeble- No doubt it is completely unwarranted but still they look so long and thin and unsubstantial.

[Slunnie]

Thanks Lokka! Thats my work shed, where the Yr12's make their HSC major projects. When they're on holidays I'm still at work.

Gday Yorker, thanks for this . The guards are cut based pretty heavily on the militarys cut, it's all pretty straight forward and if you want them, I can give you the measurements for the cuts, as long as you have the straight edges etc. The cut that I run is slightly different, and is a hybrid between the mil spec cut and an Australian Series that runs mog diffs etc. This is it with some tyres on it. The claws are gone though and I've now got unfitted Creepys



The Chevy trucks we dont get over here. I guess what surprised me a bit was that more people we not using Hilux (Toyota Minitruck) springs which are also quite long and flex very well when modified.

[Yorker]

If you you could get me measurements for the cuts that would be great. I could eyeball it from internet pics but I'd love to have something more to go with. Thanks!

[ISUZUROVER]

Yorker, thank you for that info! I've been checking it out.

That's strange that you have less camber at the back but it sits level???

I think 200ish (winch and BB weight dependant) in the front and 170-200 in the rear should work well. Though with a really soft rear I would allow a bit extra in case there is any sag (better for it to sit slightly higher in the rear than lower).

Thats a really good point. When I measured the springs I was just assuming that the differences were related to the mount locations and thought nothing more of it. I had never noticed it to be sitting low at the rear. I've just been out with the nipple gauge and I think you're right! It seems that it is sitting right down at the rear. That was well spotted!




I was thinking about the rates the other day and I've been a bit arrogant about it. I do like the rates you've suggest and will have to be guided by you as to what works. The bar for the front is a steel Defender ARB bar (not mounted), and the plan is to trim the wings off, but maintain the upper tube work for tyre clearance, protection and later to exo and flare guards off. The winch is a high mount. hmmmm, point taken!

I also dont think it'll be too bad to have some extra ride height on it because of the wheelbase. I think/hope the track will deal with that.

No worries mate. It is looking good! I think you can probably get away with a fairly light rear like you plan. Just remember there will be a fair bit of weight transfer to the rear from the heavy box and t-case when climbing steep hills. Too soft a rear end may mean the car squats too much in those situations.

I would also fit a track bar (of sorts) to the front (maybe after engineering???).

[Slunnie]

True. fitting the tracbar will be an interesting exercise in itself, but a post engineering prospect.

Turbo4t my fearless Toy parts supplier has found some springs for me. It'd be interesting to find out what the rates are etc before fitting them (please ) or if needed so I know what to strip out of them before it goes in.

For the front I've got some LC45 fronts. They spec up as 7x6mm 70mm wide
1. 1110 long 605/505 pin eye/eye
2. 1110/605/505 mil wrap
3. 920/505/415 taper
4. 750/400/350 taper
5. 580/310/270 taper
6. 430/230/200 square
7. 265/140/125 square
Camber 156/191

Based on your previous data, it sounds like the fronts are about 255-270lb/in, though by pulling the 3rd leaf it should bring it down to about 220lb/in which should be about right.

For the rear I have LC60 rears. These spec up as 7x7mm 70mm wide
1. 1210/645/565 eye/eye
2. 1210/645/565 Milwrap
3. 1120/645/475 square
4. 1070/550/520 square
5. 790/420/370 square
6. 570/310/260 Square
7. 340/180/160 square
Camber 152/157

I'm not quit sure what type of rate these will turn up, though I'm guessing here to drop the 3rd and 5th leaf????

The other thing I was wondering, was if I should get them to reset the first 2 leafs only and open and pin the leaf clamps so that it would gain drop travel and soft flex until it loads right up and then the complete spring pack starts to work???

[uninformed]

Ben, when you talk about tappering the ends of the leaves, are you talking across the width or the thickness? im assuming the width...

have you ever experimented with tappering the width at various lengths... even almost right back to center...

Serg

[Slunnie]

Ben, when you talk about tappering the ends of the leaves, are you talking across the width or the thickness? im assuming the width...

have you ever experimented with tappering the width at various lengths... even almost right back to center...

Serg

I thought the same Serg, though these Cruiser front ones are tapered in thickness at the ends and the end of the leafs have a slight curve across its width.

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben, when you talk about tappering the ends of the leaves, are you talking across the width or the thickness? im assuming the width...

have you ever experimented with tappering the width at various lengths... even almost right back to center...

Serg

I should have said chamfer the corners... Taper usually means along the length of the leaf. Landie springs come with square cut ends, which makes them stiffer. Others - e.g. toyota, flatten the ends so they are tapered, or chamfer the corners off.

On mine, I just gave the ends a bit of a grind to make them slide more easily.

"Single Leaf Springs" (AKA Parabolics) are thickest in the middle and taper out to the ends. They have no interleaf friction, because they barely touch (hence each leaf works individually). This means they ride like coils over rough terrain. However if they are too thick in the middle it hinders articulation.

[ISUZUROVER]

True. fitting the tracbar will be an interesting exercise in itself, but a post engineering prospect.

Turbo4t my fearless Toy parts supplier has found some springs for me. It'd be interesting to find out what the rates are etc before fitting them (please ) or if needed so I know what to strip out of them before it goes in.

For the front I've got some LC45 fronts. They spec up as 7x6mm 70mm wide
1. 1110 long 605/505 pin eye/eye
2. 1110/605/505 mil wrap
3. 920/505/415 taper
4. 750/400/350 taper
5. 580/310/270 taper
6. 430/230/200 square
7. 265/140/125 square
Camber 156/191

Based on your previous data, it sounds like the fronts are about 255-270lb/in, though by pulling the 3rd leaf it should bring it down to about 220lb/in which should be about right.

For the rear I have LC60 rears. These spec up as 7x7mm 70mm wide
1. 1210/645/565 eye/eye
2. 1210/645/565 Milwrap
3. 1120/645/475 square
4. 1070/550/520 square
5. 790/420/370 square
6. 570/310/260 Square
7. 340/180/160 square
Camber 152/157

I'm not quit sure what type of rate these will turn up, though I'm guessing here to drop the 3rd and 5th leaf????

The other thing I was wondering, was if I should get them to reset the first 2 leafs only and open and pin the leaf clamps so that it would gain drop travel and soft flex until it loads right up and then the complete spring pack starts to work???

around 260lb/in front. removing the third leaf will take you down to about 220.

Rears are 320lb/in. 5 leaves (removing two) will give you 230. 4 leaves 180. I would get the whole pack reset. Then remove 3 5 and 7. If that is too soft, you can refit 3 or 7.

I can work some FC suggestions when you need them.

[Slunnie]

around 260lb/in front. removing the third leaf will take you down to about 220.

Rears are 320lb/in. 5 leaves (removing two) will give you 230. 4 leaves 180. I would get the whole pack reset. Then remove 3 5 and 7. If that is too soft, you can refit 3 or 7.

I can work some FC suggestions when you need them.

Ben, thanks so much for this.

I was out at the local spring mans today.... jeez, talk about knowledge!!!!! He was justs throwing up issues and ways to rectify, spring bushs etc etc etc. He even had a way of getting around the milwrap being on the wrong ends. Like, he just knew everything between the Rover and Cruise springs. Anyway, he can do the rest no problems, reverse the milwrap if need be also. Apparently he does a "warm" reset, not hot or cold. I'm not sure what the pro/con's are for each.

Anyway, first up I have to make them fit into the Landy. I'll make them fit, then strip the leaves and measure the installed camber, then rebuild them for resetting. I'd love to hear you suggestions for the FC.