do flexy coils make a difference

[Suspension Stuff]

does that extra flex actually get you any further though?

i mean, your front moves no better than stock. kind of defies the point of upgrading the suspension if you only focus on the rear. may as well get an IFS vehicle and have the same articulation but more comfort.

not trying to offend you just puting it up for discussion

i didn't noticed any extra flex, the only advantage is the coils dont fall out as easy.

Haha, you won't notice any more flex if you don't get longer shocks.

Hi shane, Would +16mm longer rear lower control arms bring my diff back into line in a gu patrol to suit a 4inch lift?????

Yes however we only recommend this as a solution if you have a Ute or if you have a quarter chop and have enough room behind the tyres to push them back on full compression.

For the Wagons you need upper adjustable trailing arms to correct the rear angles.

We still recommend stronger standard length heavy duty lower trailing arms because if and when you break them you can do a lot of damage (broken shocks, diff pinion, tail shaft, body work, etc)

Shane

[A.J.]

I have fitted the +16mm Superior longer lowers (thanks Shane) and I have no issues with the tyres touching on my GU wagon.

I run 35x12.5 STTs and no quarter chop.

It will most definitely depend on the tyres and other factors whether they will scrub or not but I haven't had any dramas and I'm very happy with my Superior gear.

[Suspension Stuff]

I have fitted the +16mm Superior longer lowers (thanks Shane) and I have no issues with the tyres touching on my GU wagon.

I run 35x12.5 STTs and no quarter chop.

It will most definitely depend on the tyres and other factors whether they will scrub or not but I haven't had any dramas and I'm very happy with my Superior gear.

Interesting. I presume you have tested it on full suspension travel.

Shane

[benny4x4]

I have fitted the +16mm Superior longer lowers (thanks Shane) and I have no issues with the tyres touching on my GU wagon.

I run 35x12.5 STTs and no quarter chop.

It will most definitely depend on the tyres and other factors whether they will scrub or not but I haven't had any dramas and I'm very happy with my Superior gear.

Hi mate, Did you fit upper arms as well???

[windsor78]

Hi all,

Been watching this thread and decided I'm going the 3" flexy kit for the GU wagon. Question though, does the rear sit noticeably higher than the front? One post mentioned it might slightly.

Cheers

[benny4x4]

Hi all,

Been watching this thread and decided I'm going the 3" flexy kit for the GU wagon. Question though, does the rear sit noticeably higher than the front? One post mentioned it might slightly.

Cheers

mine did a little but i just put 50mm coil spacers in and now she sit beautifully level but i also have a 10,000lbs winch and the 4.2ltr

[Suspension Stuff]

I try and set vehicles up to be 20mm higher in the rear so you can load it up when you want without looking silly.

Shane

[brad-chevlux]

what shocks are you selling to go with the 2inch flexi coils?
also can you do a softer front spring at the 2 inch height?
The front of my patrol is bit bone jarring.

[Suspension Stuff]

what shocks are you selling to go with the 2inch flexi coils?
also can you do a softer front spring at the 2 inch height?
The front of my patrol is bit bone jarring.

We are now selling Suspension Stuff shocks. I have decided that all other shocks on the market don't cut it for one reason or another. Our shocks are valved softer on compression to give a nicer ride.

I am pretty confident that we can get you a comfortable ride through the shocks. If you go any softer with the coils you run the risk of premature sag. If you have ever driven your Patrol with no front shocks at all you will begin to undertand that it is not usually the coil causing the rough ride.

Shane

[Auto-Craft]

3" and 4" slinky coils have been around a long time, in many designs, and the early ones Dobinsons did were a real issue with sag over time, if the coils are the same dia wire all the way.

We moved to a new design several years ago, which improves the soft spot in the coil rate change [when you have 2 different coil rates on top of one another, and you load test them, you get a blip in the coil rate where it goes soft for a minute portion as it chnges rates] and gets it away from any on road activitly.

Our kits were put together using either twin tube Ridepro shocks, or Fox bolt ons, so it came as a complete package with the rods, arms, spacers, shocks, shock washers, and we made up heavy duty panhard rod washers, so the bush wasnt over stressed at full travel, especially on the diff end.

Travel with bolt on slinky coil kit.



front bump stops extended


iomproved steering with correct geometry.



alloy spacers


sway bar links extended


shocks bolt on




HEavy duty stainless panhard rod washers

[GRIMACE]

Travel with bolt on slinky coil kit.

Dude, your driving the front wheel up the ramp, it's not a very good indication of travel.

The setup pictured looks kinda stiff. What rates are the springs?

when you have 2 different coil rates on top of one another, and you load test them, you get a blip in the coil rate where it goes soft for a minute portion as it chnges rates

The primary spring rate is the combination of the two different rates working together. Once the lower rate section of the spring is fully compressed, then it will jump up to the secondary rate.

I dont know how it gets softer again mid compression, can you please explain this further?

[Auto-Craft]

Travel with bolt on slinky coil kit.

Dude, your driving the front wheel up the ramp, it's not a very good indication of travel.

The setup pictured looks kinda stiff. What rates are the springs?

The coils in that vehicle are a heavy duty coil designed for desert tourng in the slinky set up, we do intermediate coils as well.

The ramp is 1350mm high, and yes, the front wheel is on the ramp, we could of moved it over, and got it off the ramp, but it shows enough, for a desert tourer truck, that drives very nicely on road, with the sway bars on.

when you have 2 different coil rates on top of one another, and you load test them, you get a blip in the coil rate where it goes soft for a minute portion as it chnges rates


The primary spring rate is the combination of the two different rates working together. Once the lower rate section of the spring is fully compressed, then it will jump up to the secondary rate.

I dont know how it gets softer again mid compression, can you please explain this further?

When you have one coil, with 2 different rates, they get a soft blip on the load tester graph as they transfer from one spring rate to the other.

Where you design this into the spring can improve handling, and ride, because if its a blip in the high speed movement of the shock, it gives the weight tranfer a run up on the shock valving, which makes it harder to control.

[chicken]

Assassin_Offroad ,

whats the price of that $$$ ,

do have you have a website ?

-----------------------

shane ,

what the flexy set like for touring ? ,
ive got all the gear (well some of it , i'm still setting it up) i'm after a good weekender and a reliable tourer . how would this setup go with a full loaded wagon with your flexys ? i would still be looking at putting polyairs in the rear just for the extra weight with trailer and all ,

looking at 3".

have got the 3" front flexys yet ?

cheers , chicken

[GRIMACE]

I dont know how it gets softer again mid compression, can you please explain this further?

When you have one coil, with 2 different rates, they get a soft blip on the load tester graph as they transfer from one spring rate to the other.

Where you design this into the spring can improve handling, and ride, because if its a blip in the high speed movement of the shock, it gives the weight tranfer a run up on the shock valving, which makes it harder to control.

Interesting I have never herd this before. Maybe its not relevant when you have two seperate springs (like in a dual rate coilover) which is where most of my partial knowledge has come from.

[GRIMACE]

With all the kits I have found that increasing the bump stops have not reduced flex

Shane

Its a worry when someone in your position makes a statement that is so clearly false.
I know its probably just worded incorrectly, but people on this forum can tend to take advice quite literally, especially from someone in the trade.

To elaborate on this further, I agree with Shane. If you have more down travel (ie really long shocks) then the fitment of bumpstops can also help with traction.

The bump stop simply acts as a pivot point for the diff on the full compression side, thus creating a fulcrum effect that can actually transfer more downward pressure to the side with all the droop.

Ofcourse the pressure might be very minimal compared to the pressure excerted by the compressed spring but it can make a difference.

I hope that made sense cause as usual, I don't think it did.

[Auto-Craft]

Interesting I have never herd this before. Maybe its not relevant when you have two seperate springs (like in a dual rate coilover) which is where most of my partial knowledge has come from.

You dont get it with 2 coils one over the other, on a coil over.

[Auto-Craft]

With all the kits I have found that increasing the bump stops have not reduced flex

Shane

Its a worry when someone in your position makes a statement that is so clearly false.
I know its probably just worded incorrectly, but people on this forum can tend to take advice quite literally, especially from someone in the trade.

To elaborate on this further, I agree with Shane. If you have more down travel (ie really long shocks) then the fitment of bumpstops can also help with traction.

The bump stop simply acts as a pivot point for the diff on the full compression side, thus creating a fulcrum effect that can actually transfer more downward pressure to the side with all the droop.

Ofcourse the pressure might be very minimal compared to the pressure excerted by the compressed spring but it can make a difference.

I hope that made sense cause as usual, I don't think it did.

The ideal set up is normally 1/3 up travel, 2/3 down, and if your shocks are longer, you need to check if you require bump stop spacers to stop the shock becoming one.

On a patrol or cruiser, you need to allow 30mm of bump stop crush, so if you measure the disstance to the bump stop when its not sitting on it, add 30mm, this will help work out bump stop lenght, but its easiest to measure it with the car sitting hard on the bump stop, and measure the shock compressed length between the mounts, because the fulcrum and pivot poits of a 45 link rear, or when the arms a=fo beyond horizontal upward alter the given lengths compared to when you try and measure at ride height.

[Suspension Stuff]

shane ,

what the flexy set like for touring ? ,
ive got all the gear (well some of it , i'm still setting it up) i'm after a good weekender and a reliable tourer . how would this setup go with a full loaded wagon with your flexys ? i would still be looking at putting polyairs in the rear just for the extra weight with trailer and all ,

looking at 3".

have got the 3" front flexys yet ?

cheers , chicken

We are getting rid of all softer flexy coils so Suspension Stuff coils setup for touring and carry the same loads as normal coils. So normal duty rear coils are made out of 20mm wire and extra heavy duty is 21mm wire. You need at least 200kg of constant load for the extra heavy duty and can easily take 500kg of gear in the back.

You have just reminded me about the front flexy coils. I will get onto it.

[Suspension Stuff]

One thing I am pretty sure Assassin offroad will agree with is that the Flexy coils that Dobinsons now have are too soft and do sag. I am pretty sure that they an old soft design of Assassin offroad with the wire tappered thinner.

As soon as we get our flexy coils made in a different colour we will be increasing our warranty that is currently 12 months.

Shane

[windsor78]

Hi Shane,

How long to you do your 3" flexy front? Looking to visit you in the coming weeks to pick up a flexy kit

[chunks]

One thing I am pretty sure Assassin offroad will agree with is that the Flexy coils that Dobinsons now have are too soft and do sag.

Yep I've just fitted some to my GU ute and the rears (C45-271V I think they are) are way too soft, you can easily bounce the car by pushing down on the tray and it feels like it wants to lift the inside front wheel around tight corners. The car also feels very "twitchy" in the rear when cruising at around 80-100kmh which can be a little unerving at times. The flex is great but they are definitely too soft for a tourer. The front seems not too bad at this stage but I reckon they will sag when I put a winch on. Martin at Dobinsons did me a good price on them so I'll probably keep them for a while until I decide what's my best option.

[Suspension Stuff]

One thing I am pretty sure Assassin offroad will agree with is that the Flexy coils that Dobinsons now have are too soft and do sag.

Yep I've just fitted some to my GU ute and the rears (C45-271V I think they are) are way too soft, you can easily bounce the car by pushing down on the tray and it feels like it wants to lift the inside front wheel around tight corners. The car also feels very "twitchy" in the rear when cruising at around 80-100kmh which can be a little unerving at times. The flex is great but they are definitely too soft for a tourer. The front seems not too bad at this stage but I reckon they will sag when I put a winch on. Martin at Dobinsons did me a good price on them so I'll probably keep them for a while until I decide what's my best option.

Yeah I wish Dobinsons would take them off the market because they give flexy coils a bad name.

Shane

[Suspension Stuff]

Hi Shane,

How long to you do your 3" flexy front? Looking to visit you in the coming weeks to pick up a flexy kit

I should have a few sets for testing in about 3 weeks time.

Shane

[BowTieGQ]

Ooh, testers.

[Suspension Stuff]

It doesn't really mean a lot to me if you flex well backwards because you are normally driving forwards up a hill.

Shane

[Auto-Craft]

It doesn't really mean a lot to me if you flex well backwards because you are normally driving forwards up a hill.

Shane

So you only flex on hills ?

[Suspension Stuff]

I know what you mean, on the flat you also want flex but I don't drive up steep hills backwards as a travel ramp simulates.

My Jeep flexes well backwards which is good for the ramp shots but I don't think I actually appreciate this in real offroad situations. Just an observation not science.

Shane

[sudso]

One thing I am pretty sure Assassin offroad will agree with is that the Flexy coils that Dobinsons now have are too soft and do sag.

Yep I've just fitted some to my GU ute and the rears (C45-271V I think they are) are way too soft, you can easily bounce the car by pushing down on the tray and it feels like it wants to lift the inside front wheel around tight corners. The car also feels very "twitchy" in the rear when cruising at around 80-100kmh which can be a little unerving at times. The flex is great but they are definitely too soft for a tourer. The front seems not too bad at this stage but I reckon they will sag when I put a winch on. Martin at Dobinsons did me a good price on them so I'll probably keep them for a while until I decide what's my best option.

Yeah I wish Dobinsons would take them off the market because they give flexy coils a bad name.

Shane

They are articulation coils FFS They're meant to be soft and supple for trails not for carrying loads.
So are you now saying all the kits (springs/shock combo's) you sold in the past are crap but are better now with your name and colour on them?
Do you realise how much you contradict yourself on the forums?

BTW folks my mates Patrol with 3" progressive rate coils, 3rd's arms and 6" shocks outflexed another one with flexy coils and superflex arms. Go figure.

[Suspension Stuff]

One thing I am pretty sure Assassin offroad will agree with is that the Flexy coils that Dobinsons now have are too soft and do sag.

Yep I've just fitted some to my GU ute and the rears (C45-271V I think they are) are way too soft, you can easily bounce the car by pushing down on the tray and it feels like it wants to lift the inside front wheel around tight corners. The car also feels very "twitchy" in the rear when cruising at around 80-100kmh which can be a little unerving at times. The flex is great but they are definitely too soft for a tourer. The front seems not too bad at this stage but I reckon they will sag when I put a winch on. Martin at Dobinsons did me a good price on them so I'll probably keep them for a while until I decide what's my best option.

Yeah I wish Dobinsons would take them off the market because they give flexy coils a bad name.

Shane

They are articulation coils FFS They're meant to be soft and supple for trails not for carrying loads.
So are you now saying all the kits (springs/shock combo's) you sold in the past are crap but are better now with your name and colour on them?
Do you realise how much you contradict yourself on the forums?

BTW folks my mates Patrol with 3" progressive rate coils, 3rd's arms and 6" shocks outflexed another one with flexy coils and superflex arms. Go figure.

The amount of flex out of the front has a huge bearing on your front radius arm bushes. If you have very soft bushes (that 3rd's use)(and we use also if the customer wants) then you are going to flex well. Superiors arms will give full front flex but not up a flex ramp. However Superiors arms don't have flex bushes, the bushes will last just about forever and you won't receive axle movement under braking.

If you ever go up to Superiors shop there is a chance you will see them fixing up a cracked chassis because of the design of the 3rds arms tearing it apart. Surely you have heard of this???

As far as soft being crap. Yes I am saying this when it comes to the satisfaction of the customer in the long term. The flexy coils that we do will make the ride a little smoother then linear coils however I don't want to hear anybody saying that Suspension Stuff Flexy coils have sagged, or can't carry a big load. I have also found that your Patrol will lean over further on side slopes with soft coils.

I have asked just about every customer for feedback, we have sent out a lot of flexy coils and this is the verdict. I don't wake up one day and decide to get rid of soft flexy coils today.

So the softer flexy coils are not longer available for a LWB. You can still get good flex out of a flexy coil and not have it soft.

Shane

[Auto-Craft]

Shane,

a coil not working in a car is because the person selling them put the wrong coil in the wrong car, its not the coils fault, it is what it is when you buy it. Its where you put it that determines if it works.

That doesnt mean your manufacturer shouldnt make them.

The biggest problem we found with the same wire dia all the way from Dobinsons was sag, and when we discussed it with them, they responded by saying "yeah, those oils are going to be so much trouble, long term"

Thats when we changed design, to overcome the issue those coils had.