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Gen 1 3.5L V6 conversion and TT build up

Tech Talk for Mitsubishi owners.

Moderator: -Scott-

Posts: 53
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Kansas USA

Post by Spicoli »

Purpose of doubling your transfer cases is:

Remember how your truck pulls when you put it in 4low?
Generally it can pull its self out rather easily.

With 2 of em you can have that low gear x2 b/c the front one is in low and feeds the next one its already low gear then you can even lower that un again. It basically just a way to be even lower geared with out having crazy low diff gears.

And by the way the RFC looks you have to haul ass from time to time

Hope it makes sense.

I'm looking over the RFC thread on Ih8mud.com and wow. It looks um....... dirty :D
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Joined: Sun May 23, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Post by MontyMcV »

I don't think swapping in an SR rear will be the same bolt-in that it is here in the US. Here all the Gen I LWBs were V6s and coil rears. That makes the SR rear mostly bolt-in. Your Gen I LWB is leaf-sprung, as you know. Here in the US the Monto Sport with a rear locker is mostly a bolt-in. Did the Challengers there come leaf-sprung and with lockers?

Another option of course is to get the SR rear and burn off the coil mounts. I may do that some day as the Monter Sport leaf-sprung rear lockers are hard to find.

I wouldn't let something as simple as drive shafts get it your way. With all the work you are tackling, a DS fitting is a formality.

Lastly, you might want to track down MBrannon on 4x4Wire.com down the road when you start thinking turbo. Also watch "The Wire" as he may be starting one before too long. He used to work at 3SX... :twisted:

Good luck with your project. Looks like it it will be a lot of fun!
FSMs at http://www.mitsubishilinks.com
1) 00 3.5 SOHC, AT, stock for now
2) 95 LS,5-spd,3.0 24V,SR rear locker
3) 87 SWB 2.6L Turbo, I/C, 2.85s, LSD/LSD
4) 03 20th Anniv, hers, 22k miles!
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur

Post by iwan »

nope..the halfcut that i got do not have the factory locker. since i'm not going to do a rear coil conversion, i'll have to loose all brackets and mounts from the rear axle and fit it with the leaf spring mounts. that should be real easy..

there are not much challengers here in malaysia. but i haven't seen a challenger with leaf spring. thanks for the info..i'll watch the wire closely.

got a call from my mech several days before..i can start working on my paj this thursday or friday. i'll try take pictures as much as i could..

one quick question..torsion bar load rate should differ between models right? what i meant is, gen 2 3.0 V6 to gen 2 3.5 V6, gen 1 3.0 V6 to gen 1 2.5 tdi.. if gen 2 3.5 V6 won't fit to my gen 1, i may have to source for aftermarket torsion bars.. urghh, this will make some serious burn to my entire expenses for this build.
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 2:49 pm
Location: Kansas USA

Post by Spicoli »

I have a feeling the diesels have stiffer spring rate. But the thing with the torsion bars is there mountings positions for them, varies quite a bit.

http://www.swayaway.com/TorsionBars.php

That site will tell ya a bit. With torsion bars and there legnth diameter and what not. Dont forget Pajeros are monteros over here.

Good luck
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Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur

Post by iwan »

well..the work has begun. dashboard, front IFS all removed. only thing left is engine and gearbox. i've compared the torsion bars and the 3.5's is longer by 20+mm. if i want to fit the 3.5's, how do i come around this? need help please..
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Post by J Top »

A longer bar is softer unless its diameter is greater. They use longer bars to allow the twist over more length. I have seen the rear splines welded to a piece of pipe with the adjuster on the other end allowing the longer bar in the factory mounts. There is a formula for working out torsion bar rates but I no longer have it, try google. You need to mix and match steering componants to fit gen 2 arms but it is a bolt on swap.
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Gen1 3.5L V6 tt build up

Post by scorpion 42 »

Hi iwan,
While you are waiting around for your Mech to fit all the road train together, what I advise you to be doing is cleaning your petrol tank out and while you are there, pulling your pump / sender unit out too and giving them a good clean to, also check the metal feed and return pipes that are a fixture to the pump, for rust and cut and weld / braze in new bits, there is a reason for this, with this engine you are plumbing in, its very,very prone to not liking the least bit of dirt anywhere in the system, and tell your Mech to check the 2 micro filters thats in the throttle body for any old dirt before he first time fire's her up, if he thinks that these micro filters should be changed, then tell him to go ahead, otherwise you could be having some real headaches, not trying to frighten you mate, just warning you about this proberble problem and you MUST use BP ULITIMATE petrol too, or its equivalent in and around KL mate ok.

By the way, great project, the very best of luck with it.

And another warning too, you will need more strenghth in those front mountings if you are thinking of useing that box on your front bumper has a mount for any typle of winch and you will also need front and rear snatch couplings, really heavy duty ones to your front and rear bumpers, otherwise anything flimsy will become a missile trying to pull another truck out of the brown stuff OK. :lol: keep up the good work and loads of piccies too ok.
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Location: Kuala Lumpur

Post by iwan »

thanx guys for the replies. i'm replying this from my pda so i'm limited in patience to upload pictures and such. i've got some progress and also problems too. i'll update more when i get to my pc.
Posts: 92
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Location: Kuala Lumpur

Post by iwan »

J Top wrote:A longer bar is softer unless its diameter is greater. They use longer bars to allow the twist over more length. I have seen the rear splines welded to a piece of pipe with the adjuster on the other end allowing the longer bar in the factory mounts. There is a formula for working out torsion bar rates but I no longer have it, try google. You need to mix and match steering componants to fit gen 2 arms but it is a bolt on swap.
thanks for the idea..could be the best workaround i've ever come across so far. i've measured the 2.6's torsion bar, it's about 25.7mm as for 3.5's it's about 27.4mm..more or less.
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur

Re: Gen1 3.5L V6 tt build up

Post by iwan »

scorpion 42 wrote:Hi iwan,
While you are waiting around for your Mech to fit all the road train together, what I advise you to be doing is cleaning your petrol tank out and while you are there, pulling your pump / sender unit out too and giving them a good clean to, also check the metal feed and return pipes that are a fixture to the pump, for rust and cut and weld / braze in new bits, there is a reason for this, with this engine you are plumbing in, its very,very prone to not liking the least bit of dirt anywhere in the system, and tell your Mech to check the 2 micro filters thats in the throttle body for any old dirt before he first time fire's her up, if he thinks that these micro filters should be changed, then tell him to go ahead, otherwise you could be having some real headaches, not trying to frighten you mate, just warning you about this proberble problem and you MUST use BP ULITIMATE petrol too, or its equivalent in and around KL mate ok.
i will definitely be doing this because i've changed my fuel filter twice and still experiencing jerking at mid-end of the tacho. the first time it happens my fuel pump also died. thanks for the advice. here we have ron95, ron97 and also shell's vpower. i'm mostly using ron95 because, what else, it's cheaper. :lol:
Posts: 92
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:35 am
Location: Kuala Lumpur

Post by iwan »

some updates.

v-model dashboard, aircond and blower. i just can't bear the time it will take to fit all these in, though it's not impossible to do so. i've come across pictures of a pre-91' paj for sale, with a 4m40 drivetrain and a v-model dashboard. i'll take some pictures of it tomorrow.

anyway, all wiring loom is in place except for ecu loom. that will come in later. the newer model brake servo and clutch pump bolts right up, but the 3.5's clutch pump is larger. i had to use the metal tubing from the halfcut and discard the stock ones. i'll try to remember to take pictures of this tomorrow.

also, i've started to disassemble the front axle brackets and uses the old axle bracket on the newer front axle tomorrow to see if it will bolt up..but i have a good feeling about it will fit. :roll: we'll see..

problems!
check this out. this is how the 3.5 torsion bar is longer than the 2.6's.
Image

here is the other end. 3.5's is on top in picture. but thanks to j-top, i think we have the solution..
Image :armsup:

but the one that is giving me real headache is the gearbox cross member. check this out. top in the picture is 3.5's. i'm going to need help on this later.
Image

i'm hoping that by the end of the week, we'll have the engine and gearbox lined up to check for clearances and to position it. tomorrow i'm going to work on the front suspension and front axle.
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Post by NJV6 »

Can you just make a new crossmember? Becasue they are flat it shouldn't be to hard for you, I made a new one out of 10mm plate and then you can just bolt the gearbox mount to it.
1994 NJ SWB, 3.5, 5 speed manual, 33's, XD9000, 4.9 diffs, Front & Rear ARB's, Safari Snorkel

2008-2009-2010-2011 Pavlova in the shed.
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:36 am
Location: London UK.

Post by scorpion 42 »

You can, remove the gearbox mounting and cut the amount out of the crossmember so that you have the same length as the MK1 crossmember and then, mig weld it together and re drill your mounting holes, for the gearbox mount and BoB's your Uncle, simples really, then you have a perfect crossmember to carry the gearbox, but before you do this, you had better wait untill you have mounted the engine and gearbox and got it into position, because the 3.5 gearbox bell housing may be bigger in diamerter, but I am just guessing, but you have nothing to loose by waiting, have you. This 3.5 gearbox, is a tiptronic 5 speed, or mine one is, but my one is a 1997 3.500.
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Post by iwan »

NJV6 wrote:Can you just make a new crossmember? Becasue they are flat it shouldn't be to hard for you, I made a new one out of 10mm plate and then you can just bolt the gearbox mount to it.
a new crossmember out of 10mm plate will be just too obvious for the road transport dept to tow my paj away to their compound. if any mods should be made, it has to be as OEM as possible. they may not notice it..
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Post by iwan »

scorpion 42 wrote:You can, remove the gearbox mounting and cut the amount out of the crossmember so that you have the same length as the MK1 crossmember and then, mig weld it together and re drill your mounting holes, for the gearbox mount and BoB's your Uncle, simples really, then you have a perfect crossmember to carry the gearbox, but before you do this, you had better wait untill you have mounted the engine and gearbox and got it into position, because the 3.5 gearbox bell housing may be bigger in diamerter, but I am just guessing, but you have nothing to loose by waiting, have you. This 3.5 gearbox, is a tiptronic 5 speed, or mine one is, but my one is a 1997 3.500.
your suggestion is really worth considering, but perhaps with a little improvement somewhere. thanks mate. mine is a 5sp stick..non gdi engine.
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Post by iwan »

i promised some pictures yesterday. here they are.

brake servo and clutch pump from the gen2 3.5. take note of the metal tube that i had to use from the halfcut for 3.5 clutch pump.
Image

here are gen2 upper and lower arms bolted to my chassis.
Image
Image

steering components also bolts in except for the steering box. i must send the steering box to machine the top 2 bolt location.
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Post by Spicoli »

Good work Iwan

Perhpas just cut out the middle of the 3.5 x memeber and weld into the 2.6 x member. Grind the visible beads smooth and paint it be hard to tell apart...........hopefully.

You folks in other country got weird vehicle regulations.
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Post by iwan »

Spicoli wrote:Good work Iwan

Perhpas just cut out the middle of the 3.5 x memeber and weld into the 2.6 x member. Grind the visible beads smooth and paint it be hard to tell apart...........hopefully.

You folks in other country got weird vehicle regulations.
that's is what i have in mind right now. but, the cross member mounting on the 3.5 chassis is located slightly towards the end of the chassis. that what makes it difficult to tell right now. i'm just gonna have to wait untill we aligned the engine and gearbox in.

ohh yess. if we don't have such regulations, we had be building some japanese muscle cars already..hahah! i guess we just don't have much the engineering capabilities like you guys in the states. not much engineering capapabilities, hence the strict regulations to avoid 'go big but cheap' idiots from endangering other road users. the scene of modified japanese vehicles in malaysia are no different than the import scene in the states i think. source - discovery turbo. :finger: :lol: if you must now, i'm already past the 25% displacement increase regulation (2600cc to 3500cc), therefore i'll have to go for non-normal procedure for getting my conversion approved. non approval means no insurance coverage. that's why it is important to make it as OEM as possible, as in the case for mounting points.
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gen 1 3.5L V6 TT build up

Post by scorpion 42 »

Was just thinking, about your wheels and tyres that is on the gen 1 2.6, if your going with the 3.5 calipers then you are going to need bigger rims and tyres, because your ones would rub, or wont go on those rims you have, the size of the 3.5 tyres are rims for normal road type tyres are
265 70 16, so you should be on the look out for the rims and tyres that you are going to need for your off roading, hope that you are going to find some secondhand ones, otherwise costly, dont know what secondhand part situation is like for this re build in Malaya, let alone locally in and around KL.
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Post by iwan »

pajy had 2" body lift and around 1.5-2" suspension lift previously. my current tires are baldy cooper discoverer stt 285/75/16. when the drive train swap completes, i'm thinking of getting these on. costs MYR520 each.
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Post by iwan »

some updates.

this is the picture of the 3.5 axle..no locker. removed the trailing arm brackets and coil spring seats using plasma cutter. i'll clean the axle using hand grinder later.
Image

and below is the new gen 2 upper arm balljoint. i'm having all these joints and bushing changed. one question. when you do balljoint flip, do you level those bumps? thought i'd asked before making some serious mistakes.
Image
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Post by NJV6 »

I didn't do any grinding but I don't remember them having the bumps around the bolt holes....
1994 NJ SWB, 3.5, 5 speed manual, 33's, XD9000, 4.9 diffs, Front & Rear ARB's, Safari Snorkel

2008-2009-2010-2011 Pavlova in the shed.
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Post by iwan »

yes they do have them. they old balljoints have em..i even recall a post in another forum with pictures of it with a spacer. don't you think that it will be a good idea to level the bumps around the bolt holes? may helps spread the weight evenly...n
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Post by iwan »

more updates for today.

after a long discussion, i came to this decision. i decided to knock off the original 2.6 engine mounting and drop in the 3.5 engine mounting. i'm gonna be damn unlucky if the transport enforcement officer to notice the difference later

stock 2.6 engine mount removed.
Image

the 3.5 engine mounting..
Image

up close..
Image

ball joint flip on both UCAs.
Image

looking forward to have the engine and gearbox lined up this week. so far major work was tiding up the wiring under the dash and body too. my mech will clean up the tank once we get to work with the rear axle.
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Gen 1 3.5 l V6 TT BUILD UP

Post by scorpion 42 »

Well It all looks good up to now, have yourself a real good look inside your old Petrol tank and see if there is any rust inside it and you may have to ask around online as regards to the Hi Pressure pump that you are going to need to produce the right pressure at the injecters, but I think the best Guy to give you this advice is NJV6 as I have'nt had much experience regarding this pump in the tank and he may also be able to help you out with sourceing a good secondhand unit, if you have difficulties finding one in your neck of the woods, because the cost an arm and a leg, new.
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Post by iwan »

yep..so far so good. from the 2.6L to the 2.0 turbo conversion previously, there's an external pump. the rate was pretty much unsure. but my plan was, to install a fuel pressure regulator with meter so that i can get a constant fuel pressure without worrying too much about the pump rate. i can then install an air/fuel ratio meter to monitor fuel supply.

i agree about the fuel pump price. i'm also searching if i can find an external bosch unit used around KL... btw, i'm hoping njv6 could clear the cloud i'm having. is the 3.5 fuel pump is built internally or externally? do you know what is the fuel pressure in the fuel rail?
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Post by Spicoli »

If they manage to climb down into the motor bay and look at your motor mounts, there way to serious bout there job :D

I take it you cant do a custom fuel cell for your rig? Due to regulations and what not. I think that would be what I'd do in this situation if doable.

Iwan, I did headgaskets on my 3.5, couldnt get it to start checked fuel pressure before the fuel rail, if I remember right it was 30-40psi. But wouldnt wanna say for sure.

Keep it up good work!!!
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Post by iwan »

Spicoli wrote:If they manage to climb down into the motor bay and look at your motor mounts, there way to serious bout there job :D

I take it you cant do a custom fuel cell for your rig? Due to regulations and what not. I think that would be what I'd do in this situation if doable.

Iwan, I did headgaskets on my 3.5, couldnt get it to start checked fuel pressure before the fuel rail, if I remember right it was 30-40psi. But wouldnt wanna say for sure.

Keep it up good work!!!
lol! everything that is to be driven on the road must follow manufacturers' spec. you can use fuel cell if you're in a convoy heading to the trail. no question to that. but mine will be 50 business 50 fun.. :armsup: thanks for fuel pressure info.
Last edited by iwan on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by iwan »

some updates.

since the gen 2 front axle bracket is different to gen 1, i had to use back the brackets from the gen 1 and fit it to gen 2 front axle. it goes pretty well and straight forward. here's the completed job.
Image

now, i have been toying with the idea of a full hydro steering for sometime. has anybody done this yet on a gen 1 or gen 2? here's why that i think that it can be done.

the steering box from gen 2 paj. note the top 2 bolt holes need to be machined to get it fit.
Image

and here is the gen 2 idler arm on the steering box location. all 4 bolt holes lined up.
Image

i'm imagining, if there are 2 idler arms holding the steer bar (not sure what was the actual name for it) left and right, can't you just cut (or make a new steer bar out of chromoly) and put a double ended hydraulic pump in between? i think with all these in place, you can still maintain the original steering geometry..right?
Image

any comments?
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Post by scorpion 42 »

iwan wrote:yep..so far so good. from the 2.6L to the 2.0 turbo conversion previously, there's an external pump. the rate was pretty much unsure. but my plan was, to install a fuel pressure regulator with meter so that i can get a constant fuel pressure without worrying too much about the pump rate. i can then install an air/fuel ratio meter to monitor fuel supply.

i agree about the fuel pump price. i'm also searching if i can find an external bosch unit used around KL... btw, i'm hoping njv6 could clear the cloud i'm having. is the 3.5 fuel pump is built internally or externally? do you know what is the fuel pressure in the fuel rail?
Its a High pressure pump and its in built in the tank, with a in tank fuel filter conbined into the pump and another fuel filter externally just forward of the nearside rear wheel on my one, because Iwan my one is right hand drive, regarding the pressure, why dont you PM NJV6, Im sure the lad wouldn't mind, as he's a real good guy and has a mine of info on these 3.5 trucks. Sorry I cant be of further assitance Mate.
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