coil axel vs WT axels

[atari4x4]

[Highway-Star]

hands up every body who has a sierra that actually runs and drives and hasn't sat in a shed for 12 months in bits.

Only 3 months in bits





The problem with all you people is you haven't realised is twin centred diffs are the only way to go. Not enough awesomeness in offset diffs.
And thats the important thing, awesomeness. Strength is not awesomeness. Capability is not awesomeness. Centredness is awesomeness


Anyway I just wanted an email when you guys got back to it, I'm bored...

[grimbo]

Good t see the usual dickheads in Atari and super only chime in with useless crap when I post. Grow up idiots and move on

[CanberraMav]

Suzuki diff centres are still pissweak. I think ive broken 4 over the years. Bet they are fun to change in the mud.

Bigger tyres means more tread on ground -- --means you go further. Of course this is offset by clearance but only in minimal situations.

The brindabellas during winter would be comparable to VIC terrain if you know where to find the good tracks. Bigger tyres on a low car will get you further in my experience. Its not that often that we diff out. If we do we crab walk the ruts and can usually drive them.

If half an inch of clearance is the difference between lasting in VIC then id love to come drive with you down there. I think your talking it up a bit.

Suzuki diffs have their place. Big ruts and malls.

Each to their own opinion but my car and previous car can drive all types of terrain........your limited to muddy ruts and then your out of your element.

[supazuk]

Good t see the usual dickheads in Atari and super only chime in with useless crap when I post. Grow up idiots and move on

once again grimbo thinks it is all about him why are you even in the suzuki section? how long has it been since ya had one?
things have moved on since corrola motors were the go mate.

i did 30000km in the last 12 months in my modified sierra with less then 1000km of that being on a formed road.
suzuki everything and the only breakage was a shackle mount torn out of the chassis from being very overloaded.

it doesn't matter what diffs ya run if ya car is parked up in a shed for ever as it still isnt going anywhere.

photo of my suzuki as i actually own one

[grimbo]

I too own a Suzuki and have done for the last 9 months.

It's horses for courses obviously but the biggest problem is the assumption that there is only one answer. Generally when someone asks about upgrading those generally with no idea spout Hilux the only answer, then after a usual outers ramble thegiys who actually use hiluxgear provide real info. However there is the ability to remain Suzi gear without the need for major mods which generally us ignored because it's not advocated loudly enough or perhaps eloquently enough.

[V.W.Dave]

All due respect VW, but that car you are building wouldn't last the morning on a hard trip in Vic, strong as its axles might be.

Thats a interesting statement. In your mind what would make it last less then a few hours? Are the track narrow?

hands up every body who has a sierra that actually runs and drives and hasn't sat in a shed for 12 months in bits.

Hmmm it could have been done sooner but yahhh life gets in the way.... your right though it has taken wayyyyy to long.


ohhh wait its only been 10 months so I can put my hands up.

[V.W.Dave]

Suzuki diff centres are still pissweak. I think ive broken 4 over the years. Bet they are fun to change in the mud.

Bigger tyres means more tread on ground -- --means you go further. Of course this is offset by clearance but only in minimal situations.

The brindabellas during winter would be comparable to VIC terrain if you know where to find the good tracks. Bigger tyres on a low car will get you further in my experience. Its not that often that we diff out. If we do we crab walk the ruts and can usually drive them.

If half an inch of clearance is the difference between lasting in VIC then id love to come drive with you down there. I think your talking it up a bit.

Suzuki diffs have their place. Big ruts and malls.

Each to their own opinion but my car and previous car can drive all types of terrain........your limited to muddy ruts and then your out of your element.

[supazuk]

Bugger. I nearly said 6 months.

[V.W.Dave]

hey Shep how much would you sell your zook for?

[supazuk]

It has actually been sold, deposit has been taken and he has until the 6th june to pay the rest
Got 9900 for it

[V.W.Dave]

What will its relacement be?

[atari4x4]

Good t see the usual dickheads in Atari and super only chime in with useless crap when I post. Grow up idiots and move on

i see you're posting in here with your awesome tech

[supazuk]

What will its relacement be?

Maybe a speed car or wingless sprint.

[V.W.Dave]

What will its relacement be?

Maybe a speed car or wingless sprint.

Can you PLEASE post a pic of when you use that to launch your boat for the first time PLEASE......

[zukmeista]

I have a sierra and I regularly drive stuff others have to winch. Nothings ever broken either

[V.W.Dave]

I have a sierra and I regularly drive stuff others have to winch. Nothings ever broken either

Something a little interesting is now that i think back. I have never broken a front diff, axel or CV in my zook. hmmm and it was all 100% stock. The oly problems I had was the rear end. I snapped atleast 6 axels, cracked 1 3rd member housing, took teeth off one crown wheel, put the crown wheel through the back of the housing and had the inut bering flog out on the other. So in 12 months i killed 6 axels and 4 rear diffs never had any problems with the front. But the guys I go out with killed a CV almost every weekend. On smaller tires.

[Gwagensteve]

If half an inch of clearance is the difference between lasting in VIC then id love to come drive with you down there. I think your talking it up a bit.

Suzuki diffs have their place. Big ruts and malls.

........your limited to muddy ruts and then your out of your element.

It fascinates me that the perception is that that's all we drive. We drive all sorts of stuff down here, it's the ruts that are the problem though. Is 1/2" the difference? It sure is. Sometimes it's the effect of the passenger getting out of the car. That's 5% weight reduction.

We're also really noticing the effect of the spacing between the inside of the tyres. It's where the NT cars pick up capability until they fall over, and the offset rim Wt cars are just sitting in the same ruts as everything else and no tyre is big enough. It's where the Krawler equipped cars on 4" BS 8" rims pick up traction by working off the inside edge of the ruts.

CanberraMav- if you think more tread on the ground gets you further, then you understand less about driving in difficult terrain than I thought. Inadequate ground pressure is a huge problem in sierras and it's one of the reasons I'm running 9/34 swampers. If the guys running Krawlers don't have ruts to key into then they get spanked by cars on 31's, because the small tyre cars have more ground pressure.

Dave, it's not that the tracks are narrow, it's that they're all being winched by guys with 37's on patrols. Then they erode. If you're on "standard" width axles, you're on the winch with everyone else. Then you have to deal with the off camber, then you have to punch it to generate wheelspeed. There's a reason our cars are getting lower and lower. My car is 2" suspension/2" BL and WT with offset rims ( 5" flares are too narrow, so it's fairly wide by sierra standards) and it's been on it's side 5 times and roof once. You can add width and lower COG with non-suzuki diffs.... then you're on the winch because you're in everyone else's line. It's not easy to resolve, but lower and lighter is better.

In any case, we have an unbroken record of NSW cars working like poo on the stuff we drive. They ALL get MUCH lower or sold back to NSW where apparently they work.

Steve.

[Highway-Star]

Seeing as I'm getting emails from this thread I'll attempt to say something useful....

Is 1/2" the difference? It sure is.

The difference between 6.5" and 7" Suzuki diffs is severe enough. The amount of things my twin locked Sierra cannot drive due to diffing out and not being able to drag itself though, and then with the same set of tyres on my open diffed LJ80 I can just drive over the top....

Whilst you guys are stressing out over diff centres the size of my engine, I'm dreading the thought of custom made axle housing that accept 7" Suzuki diffs just so I can air lock my LJ... The thought of BIG 7" SJ diff centres I find incredibly horrible. Shaving may be the solution..... but I'm not totally sold...

[Gwagensteve]

I don't think that's the diameter of the centre though, I think that's the effect of the very narrow track width of the LJ. I noticed the same thing when I was running 1.0 diffs and 16X4" rims with 9/34 swampers. I wasn't diffing out - it was amaxinly capable even with only the rear locked, but golly, I was falling over a lot.

If it was me, I'd step up to 7" centres and shave them, the difference then between a NT/WT housing and an LJ housing would be negligible, but more importantly, you can give the housing a much better profile that slips much more easily.

Steve.

[Highway-Star]

Fair call on the narrowness, though I must say I like the living in fear of falling over... keeps things interesting . I still think diff size is quite relevant, though for some reason the profile advantages of a shaved diff never crossed my mind...

[CanberraMav]

Canberramav if you think more tread on the ground gets you further, then you understand less about driving in difficult terrain than I thought. Inadequate ground pressure is a huge problem in sierras and it's one of the reasons I'm running 9/34 swampers. If the guys running Krawlers don't have ruts to key into then they get spanked by cars on 31's, because the small tyre cars have more ground pressure.

What a load of shit

Why did the Barbie LJ do so well on 40's?? Why did i win Toperi on 37's???
These are some of the toughest comps in Australia.

Toperi was a foot deep in mud by the end of it.............Maybe i should have ditched my Treps for some skinny 34's?

Seriously?

There is a time when tyres can become too big i agree. Tyre pressures can compensate for the stiffmess of the sidewall on a larger tyre up until a point.

Of course more tread on the ground gets you further..........thats why we like this thing called wheel travel. It keeps our tread on the ground and strangely enough allows us to drive further.


This thread is funny to me. Some of the crap on here is amazing.

Gwagon..no hard feelings, each to their own opinion. If we ever cross paths id really love to see how you can leave me behind.

[CanberraMav]

330mm to the diff on mine.

Shaved 60 series on 37 Treps.

[V.W.Dave]

In any case, we have an unbroken record of NSW cars working like poo on the stuff we drive. They ALL get MUCH lower or sold back to NSW where apparently they work.

Steve.

WoW now nothing is good enough to drive the Vic tracks that your crew hasn't built? Thats a joke.

Driver ability and knowledge of how your truck works will get you a long way.

to go back on your poo statement I have a feeling all the zooks need to be over enganeered down there simply because you guys don't know how to drive them.

[ROB ZUK]

Gwagon..no hard feelings, each to their own opinion. If we ever cross paths id really love to see how you can leave me behind.

Hahaha
Can I come and watch??

[BlueSuzy]

Gwagon..no hard feelings, each to their own opinion. If we ever cross paths id really love to see how you can leave me behind.

Hahaha
Can I come and watch??

I love both your zooks.

[zukmeista]

Why can't everyone just accept that other people are always going to have a different opinion and play nicely

[Gwagensteve]

I really do understand the need to build sierras in NSW the way they are built. It's clear from my experience that the NSW build format doesn't work in Victoria. I'm not claiming that our cars are suitable for your terrain either, you'll note. I'm not challenging the way you guys build your cars for your conditions. I'm challenging the blanket attitude that suzuki diffs are crap and the any other diff is excellent because it came from a heavier car and is therefore strong.

I also challenge the misconception that we only drive ruts and mud, so we don't need the strength of the big diffs. We break the same stuff at the same tyre size as anybody else anywhere in the world, we just have a different way of dealing with it because of the demands of our terrain. I'll add that adding tyre size to overcome the lost ground clearance isn't a sure bet either. CanberraMav, you must understand the concept of ground pressure. You know that using what works in comps as a template for why more tread on the ground always equals more capability is nonsense. If ground pressure isn't important where you drive, that's fine, but it makes a huge difference for us. It's been proven time and time again in out terrain. Tyre pressure isn't the problem.

I'm not claiming NSW terrain is easy and we have the hardest terrain - far from it - I'm only claiming we have a different set of parameters that have lead us to build the smallest, lightest diffs we can. It's not from lack of experience with diff swaps, it's precisely because of that experience. Swapping diffs doesn't add capability where we are.

In any case, it's clear this is the new SPUA/SPOA debate. Most of the same text was written seven years ago when that was going on. All the same smack as getting talked about if we cross paths we'll see what works etcetcetc and we should all get together and prove it once and for all. It's nonsense. Our cars don't work in your terrain and your cars don't work in our terrain. There's no need to take that personally. I know everyone likes to think they drive the hardest terrain and build the toughest cars, and comps like tough truck reinforce the template of what's required for capability. Vic is full of jokers that think a 4" lifted GQ with a tube tray and a loud turbo on 37's is the last word in capability because they use winch challenge as the template of what a capable car is. We get stuck behind them winching all the time. Ultimately, tuff trucks are built to suit a small range of stages and a set of rules, as are winch challenge cars.

Steve.

[V.W.Dave]

Well yours is smaller then mine na nan anan hahahah

[V.W.Dave]

Gwagon..no hard feelings, each to their own opinion. If we ever cross paths id really love to see how you can leave me behind.

Hahaha
Can I come and watch??

Hey Rob,
Just wondering what gearing you have in your driveline? I ask because my zook is almost the mirror image of yours but mine is about 10" longer.

You did well at TT as well.