td42 plus 2871R 71mm, 56 trim 0.60ar 0.64 exhaust housing

[UGOTNUFN]

MIght be time to bring out the ol girl again graeme.

[Northside 4x4]

@ Northside GTX Post

That is flywheel corrected power, not at the wheels, torque is in ftlb and is around 710nm peak @ crank. I think it is important to state that. It's nice power for sure. But, AFR's are quite low at top end (I believe ~16?), so EGT's will be on the high side during extended rus.

The dyno used is also a loaded run on retarder, which spools the turbo earlier and gives meaty low end data - all corrct mind you, but important to mention compared to a dyno result from UGOTNUFN with load response which loads vehicle to the square of the rpm. Hence acceleration at 1500rpm is 4 times that of 3000rpm and this results in proportionatly less load up in low end - the exact same area that turbos are lazy and need time to spool. This is why he does loaded power runs at fixed rpm to check.

Honestly I think you purposely fill as many threads as you can with photos of your own products or results even when they are OT - I have found this a bit annoying in the past on IH8mud as have some other posters. Its all good any well to make posts etc but you tend to try and hijack everything you touch and question almost everything you can while trying to keep yourself clean with a happy face, its not being a good sport. The thread starter would not get the results you posted with the 120cc of fuel that he requested initially, so how is it relevent when there is already a thread you started with results from the GTX30 - which are good results, no doubt (but possible with other manufacturers). A modified TD05 could get VERY close results to what you quoted from the GTX30 with better spool.

UF do their own turbos, not sure if you actually know that already or just trying to play schoolyard tactics - it is entertaining but a bit too OT for me. As for trying to guess the mods; they have been doing turbos for years and have experienced people that have observed many different mods that OEM's use of difefrent models, tried a few things, done back to back dynos and found what works on the TD42. If only it was as easy as a flutd inlet and outlet. When I build my own turbos, I select a different spec wheel and close up the tolerances.... going the other way cant be good for efficiency or surge. I've never done it so may be wrong, but the approach you suggest would seem to me trying to make something do what it was never designed for by fitting in some dodgy machining.

I dont think that you have a right to demand AFR's, considering some of the data is IP. By all means release as much as you like - it all goes nicely into my calculator :-)

As for ball bearings and things not adding up that you posted earlier; the thing is the numbers really do add up. UGOTNUFN can contact me with injector pump specs and turbo specs and intercooler details and I can get within a hares breath of the reality in both flywheel and at wheels power when dynoed almost every time.

Regarding the ball bearings and spool, this can be a bit of an issue in petrols but its benefit is so small in an older school diesel that in my opinion based on experience, theory and logic, it isnt a deal breaker by any means when selecting a turbo. You are better off paying attention to rotating mass and turbine sizing and turbine trim. If there was really that much drag from bushed turbos, you would need monumental increases in drive energy and the cars would have so much back pressure in relation to boost that the power would be terrible - the fact is the power is just fine.

There are two main benefits I see and that is mostly for the pertrol engine - an engine that has low off throttle exhaust flow (because it has a throttled intake air) and lower exhaust emmisions because of the low amount of oil in the cartridge meaning lower propensity to seep oil into exhaust. The lower friction of BB has such small impact on a diesel of the size of a TD42 that it ceases to reflect in performance significantly if at all.

My cousins TD42 with the 2860 was a really great truck to drive, everything was setup perfectly (its just the way he does things) and it fairly hammered. But down low response was a real issue and surge was a real issue (turbo did die) when trying to get any sort of low end response by fueling it up. Since he raced he had no care for smoke. It cleaned up past 1800 (or so, maybe closer to 2k) but in many cases that rpm was too high for what he wanted.

However the TD05 that UGOTNUFN has referred to (and I posted the results because they were exactly to the pump values of 120cc quoted) is a better option; it spooled just as quick but can be pushed into much higher pressure ratios in low end - I dont think it would surge at 22psi @ 1700 and it would get there without too bad AFR's - probably 15-16 or so. There is no question at all that the vehicle with the TD05 is significantly quicker than that with the 2860.

Thats HP at the wheels and FTlb at the crank.
That isnt the same one I posted up a few weeks back, AFR in the top end on this one is still 18:1, egt 500deg post turbo.

Dont know why your all so scared to post them up either. An AFR figure gives nothing about the pump away. You can have 120cc of fuel giving 12:1 or 40:1 depending on alot of variables in the setup and how well it burns.

So in reality its no different to all these dodgy chip companies that are making huge power yet refuse to post up any afr or boost graphs.

Also, why do I post up pics and dyno graphs and all that stuff. To give the other users proof/data/real results. Not just hearsay.

[CustomTurbos]

@ Northside

@ 2500rpm, you are showing ~ 525ftlbs at crank = 712nm

which @ 2500rpm is 250hp @ crank

which is what the graph says, so that means theres zero drivetrain loss - obviously its not zero

[moddedgu]

I might go out and measure up the one of the UF TD05's laying in the workshop then.
Just at a quick glance, machined out inlet and outlet on the compressor and slightly opened up the squish between compressor and cover.

Same as MTQ does actually, they dont do the mods for you by any chance do they?

Terranonut - Results below with a gtx30 frout mount cooler, custom intake manifold and upgraded 12mm pump.
Thats the kind of power curve you get out of a 30 series, about 400rpm slower spoolup than the 2860 series, but much meatier top end.

Can you post the AFR results for off boost, HP run, for this setup / run.

[84mksd33t]

Quang from MTQ Malaga used to do the high flow work on the HT18 turbos that UF did. Housing and also custom exhaust wheel work to reduce back to pressure AFAIK.

[Northside 4x4]

@ Northside

@ 2500rpm, you are showing ~ 525ftlbs at crank = 712nm

which @ 2500rpm is 250hp @ crank

which is what the graph says, so that means theres zero drivetrain loss - obviously its not zero

I have not setup drive train losses so its probably not close to the actual torque at the crank. I will print out a tractive effort graph instead. And you can weave your math's with that.

moddedgu - I can post some up tomorrow. I started all the runs from about 1800rpm though as it is pretty dirty down low.
No point running from 1000rpm on a setup like this as it will never be in that range when its being used.

[84mksd33t]

Sd33t all the way. Td42s are junk.

[CustomTurbos]

Regarding the UF turbos, since I have seen all the modded bits I can categorically say that the mods are well thought out and executed and by no means are there tolerance increases like NS suggested. I cringe at such things but recognize that with something like the HT18 which won't surge, maybe increasing tolerances like that is a cheap way to get some flow without replacement of hard parts. The TD's are a different animal though.

[Northside 4x4]

@ Northside

@ 2500rpm, you are showing ~ 525ftlbs at crank = 712nm

which @ 2500rpm is 250hp @ crank

which is what the graph says, so that means theres zero drivetrain loss - obviously its not zero

I have not setup drive train losses so its probably not close to the actual torque at the crank. I will print out a tractive effort graph instead. And you can weave your math's with that.

moddedgu - I can post some up tomorrow. I started all the runs from about 1800rpm though as it is pretty dirty down low.
No point running from 1000rpm on a setup like this as it will never be in that range when its being used.



To NS:

Look, if you are going to tell me in other posts that something doesn't add up and then rather than making unspecific comments like yours I actually show you that something you post doesn't add up, whats the problem? In actual fact, if you haven't entered drivetrain losses then your flywheel torque is higher - that's a good thing

Regarding the UF turbos, since I have seen all the modded bits I can categorically say that the mods are well thought out and executed and by no means are there tolerance increases like suggested. I cringe at such things but recognize that with something like the HT18 which won't surge, maybe increasing tolerances like that is a cheap way to get some flow without replacement of hard parts. The TD's are a different animal though.

Your right, it doesnt add up, and ive given you the exact reason for it and have also promised to get you a tractive effort at the wheels graph, which I will do.
I dont set up drivetrain loss because I rarely bother to post flywheel figures. But like I said, I will post up a graph with tractive effort instead and ill put a wager on the actual crank torque being higher than the reading shown in the graph I printed earlier.

[CustomTurbos]

When choosing a turbo, dimensional issues matter most. by this I mean size for flow, then size for pressure ratio and then size for efficiency.

I'm not going to go into the nuts and bolts of it but thats why my CT series Turbos gop so well and thats also why UOGOTNFN's TD series go so well ;-)

[Northside 4x4]

David - Didnt dial it in by the gauge sorry mate, it was set to .74 as pump builder recommended. We advanced it a little bit on the dyno which saw about a 20kw gain. I would hazzrd a guess by the amount we moved it and say between .79-.81mm.
Boost was set at 28psi. Fueling was about 15:1 @ 1800rpm and 18:1 @ 4000rpm. I will get a fuel/boost graph up soon.

[fumduk3]

northside dont send him 1 for free i'll take 1 for a carton of woteva n i'll test it against my garrett!!!!!!!!!! send to bris southside haha

also i have a 12mm pump and it runs crap on .74 had to up it to .9

[Northside 4x4]

everything I have typed regarding ANY product from Another supplier has been deleted.



EDIT:
I have modified this post so it contains only the relevant info.

Kingy

[moddedgu]

I'll drive down and pick one up or take photos of one of these Turbos tomorrow!

[UGOTNUFN]

We are still waiting for you to say your are 150% sure that what you are basing your results on are actually my modified TD05's that have been in circulation since late January !!!

Until you do so and provide actual pictures of the said modified TD05's and categorical proof of why you are saying is true then it is all childish carry on ..... Making up such stories to slander another business is lower than low mate and I hope your employer is aware of your behavior in a public place.

Your a downright disgrace to the whole TD42 performance industry and I have never ever conversed with a person with such passion to beat people down as you my friend..

Delete the posts ..., he'll know we want all to see how you conduct yourself ..

[CustomTurbos]

Edited

[UGOTNUFN]

I'll drive down and pick one up or take photos of one of these Turbos tomorrow!

Thanks Dave !!!!

You seen a lot of pics of them so you will know I'd they are mine or not!!

[Northside 4x4]

Perhaps you should reread some of your earlier posts if you want to talk about 'beating people down'
My posts have been deleted as I said I would. You going to continue to keep this thread going down the gurgler? Because I have yet to read one post from you in this thread that has helped/contributed to the OP's question.

Custom - Perhaps the email was not sent by me then if it is not under the same name. As I have certainly never said anything bad or good about your products as I have never even had the chance to test one.

[UGOTNUFN]

Perhaps you should reread some of your earlier posts if you want to talk about 'beating people down'
My posts have been deleted as I said I would. You going to continue to keep this thread going down the gurgler? Because I have yet to read one post from you in this thread that has helped/contributed to the OP's question.

Custom - Perhaps the email was not sent by me then if it is not under the same name. As I have certainly never said anything bad or good about your products as I have never even had the chance to test one.

Actually the OP has my qoute and specs for the turbo I recommend

Oh how I wish I had a picture of someone backpedalling right now!!!

[twodiffs]

Do you guys even realise that you have taken this thread to a level that is way higher (turbo tech wise) than what the average punter even needs to know?. Most of us (speaking for myself) just want to know solid reliable basics of what is simple and works, i'd go so far as to say that either a 2860 or td05 will do both. For my part though i'm fixed on a td05.

I'm not saying this has gone off topic but it's got personal and the tech stuff you guys mention is probably only going to serve comp guys or someone who really wants to get themselves up to spec or higher than layman level.

Don't stop by all means buty keep it at layman level without the slanging.

[UGOTNUFN]

Do you guys even realise that you have taken this thread to a level that is way higher (turbo tech wise) than what the average punter even needs to know?. Most of us (speaking for myself) just want to know solid reliable basics of what is simple and works, i'd go so far as to say that either a 2860 or td05 will do both. For my part though i'm fixed on a td05.

I'm not saying this has gone off topic but it's got personal and the tech stuff you guys mention is probably only going to serve comp guys or someone who really wants to get themselves up to spec or higher than layman level.

Don't stop by all means buty keep it at layman level without the slanging.

Very well said, most of my setups are to suit the average punter who just wants a good factory upgrade with small mods!

We will keep up the research none the less

[V8Patrol]

Thread locked.


reason:

PM requesting editing.


At this stage I will review the thread and allow those involved to PM me for further comment / requests.



I would, much like the those involved, perfer to have this sorted away from the scruitiny of the rest of the forum....
private discussion between the "main players" will see a much fairer and just end result for the general members....... I want a transperant fix for what may or may not be an issue for the general members not involved.


NB:
I'll ONLY VIEW PM's FROM THOSE WHOM HAVE POSTED IN THIS THREAD
stickybeaks can hail for a bus, better still ... I'll call one 4 you !!

I will not however move this thread from public view as much of the info is of a high tech quality.

Kingy








EDIT:

unlocked
13/08/2011

[Northside 4x4]

I'd like to publicly apologise to UF/Ugotnufn for my comments earlier in this thread. I was mistaken in what I said, and have had it removed by moderators.

[MikeH]

That ^ is a great demonstration of personal integrity and honour. Something sadly lacking in the youth (and many businesses) of today.
This thread teaches more than just turbo stuff.

Keep it technical. The average punter can go read a mainstream magazine and pick a kit from an ad. If you dont understand it and you want to figure out what the boffins are on about it's not too hard to look it up. If someone wants to make an educated selection of which high power product is right for his needs he needs to know this stuff. (otherwise the customer undoes half the good work with a baby pod filter )

[Northside 4x4]

On the note of that filter, he had a cheap ebay one on before I replaced it with a K&N.
It let stuff past which caused a very small amount of erosion on the compressor before the final tune.
Also, without the filter on, it made no difference to torque/afr/boost. So although it may be small it sure does flow enough.

Not very practical for a 4x4 though.

[MikeH]

I'm stunned. good to know though. Worth holding onto one for an emergency spare.

[moddedgu]

I'd like to publicly apologise to UF/Ugotnufn for my comments earlier in this thread. I was mistaken in what I said, and have had it removed by moderators.

NS, We have all moved on now and UGOTNUFN is on the road atm, and he will respond when he can.

David

[Northside 4x4]

I'd like to publicly apologise to UF/Ugotnufn for my comments earlier in this thread. I was mistaken in what I said, and have had it removed by moderators.

NS, We have all moved on now and UGOTNUFN is on the road atm, and he will respond when he can.

David

Yeah thats cool, I did contact him before he left.
I will likely catch up with him while he is over here if he needs a dyno to tune the car he is fixing.