4x4 systems lokka V ARB rd110

[Rob e Gee]

Well this is my first post on outer limits so please bare with me.
I own a NJ Paj 2.8itd so up untill now diff locking systems were not available , but now the choices are to hard.
I followed the production of ARB 110 for over 12 months but i wanted to get some positive feedback before comitting myself.
I had a good talk to a frend of mine that has his own 4x4 workshop and his advice to me was that the ARB 110 would be to hard on the .....CV,s.. axles and other I.F.S. components. He seems to think the auto lokka would be more suitable for a Pajero. By the way his truck is a Toyota 80 series with front and rear ARB airlockers
At about half the price of the ARB110.,theauto lokka($757delivered) plus instulation, does sound very tempting.
Does anyone have any idear either way that may help to make an opinion. P.S. ..........by this time i thought there would have been much more feedback about front diff locking systems.

[Bitsamissin]

Speaking from experience of having a front Detroit locker for 12 months in my Paj I'd say go for the ARB.
Sure it is double the price but you only get what you pay for.
The 4wd Systems Lokka is a cheap Lockright copy and I believe legal action is pending.
It only replaces the side gears with a set of dog tooth clutches the Detroit is a whole replacement centre as is the ARB (much stronger than standard). The Detroit and ARB are much stronger than a Lokka. The springs in a Lokka have a reputation for shitting themselves as well.
Also with a Gen 2 Paj (super select) you will not be able to use 4wd centre diff unlocked function on road with a Lokka or a Detroit. With an ARB you can turn it off so you don't loose the super select function and have full steering offroad with the flick of a switch.
In my opinion an auto-locker would be harder on the CV's than a selectable ARB unit.
I never broke a CV with the Detroit in 12 months and thats with a big lift, swaybar disconnected and 34" Simex's and I gave it heaps.
For my money the ARB is the go.........................

[Ian Sharpe]

yeah I agree with Frank,

You only get what you pay for & ARB is a finely engineered piece of metal.

I've bought cheap stuff before & only ended up wasting my money & having to buy the good stuff eventually.

I have the RD110 & it hasnt missed a beat since I had it installed .

cheers

[Rob e Gee]

Thanks for your input guyes , by the sounds of it you two blokes would have quite a deal of information between you.


The super select function is one thing I didnt want to loose but I THOUGHT maybe with an auto locker I could ( in certain situations), with manual hubs,...just lock one hub to keep this option open. Is this posible


May be just wishfull thinking....may be it could work....may be not!
Some times you have to think out side the circle...AND...sometimes a little knowledge is dangerous.


BITSA..you didnt give a clear reason as to why the detroit didnt perform as good as the ARB110

[pajero97]

Hi All,

I've heard those agruments before that Lokkas are cheap imposters of Lockright but if you do some searches you'll see that people have had lokkas in the front of their cars for years, with no lack of performance.

Of course all the ARBers will tell you that you get what you pay for but there's no way that i'd spend $2,000 for something that just locks the wheels together. And at the same time I've heard plenty of issues with ARB's.

Here's a link that I posted over at the other forum:

http://www.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/foru ... 6&KW=lokka

Don't worry about the seeming ordeal that I went through to get them installed. Probably better if someone can give you a hand though.

Anyway, hope it helps.

And they still work great!

[Begbie]

4. It should be understood that only when there is an external force being applied to a wheel to make it turn faster than the rest of the drive train will LOKKA allow one wheel to differentiate. Slippery surfaces where one wheel would normally break traction in an open diff cause LOKKA to stay locked - even with one or both wheels in the air LOKKA will remain locked.

Above from the lokka site - doesnt this mean you ahve a locker diff when driving on the road in the wet that you cannot disengage? Unless you "appliy an external force" ?

[RokToy4x4]

both the manual and auto lockers have their anvantages and disadvantages, however if you want to run the super select system on the road,you will have to go for a manual locker, ie arb..... shane

[Bitsamissin]

My Detroit performed faultlessly but you knew it was there.
You have to remember these auto-lockers stay locked until you try to turn sharply and then they ratchet to allow slippage for turning. It could be a handfull trying to turn in the mud the car would just want to go straight ahead. Also driving along dirt roads in 4x4 required concentration (sort of like torque steer in a front wheel drive car).
With an ARB you can disengage it to have full steering and tear around dirt roads in 4x4 without any steering misbehaviour.
This is perfect for a Gen 2 Paj with super select.
I know a few guys that have Lokka's that work well and some others that have broken them. They are a budget locker sometimes referred to as a "lunchbox locker" as they can easily go out to lunch on you.
The problems with ARB lockers are 99.99% with the compressor/air supply/plumbing. The ARB diff centre itself is virtually indestructable like a Detroit an axle will break well before the centre.
If you want an opinion on a Lokka go down to Geelong Diffs and he will show you the box of Hilux ones he has with broken springs !!!!
They were replaced with Detroits or ARB's.
I got the Detroit as it was the only option at the time, 4wd Systems were piss farting around for 3yrs with this Lokka (even though they were advertising it as available). Sure they are cheap and do the job but you have to be aware of their limitations and side effects.
If I was starting again and had the choice of the 3 lockers (ARB, Detroit, Lokka) I would go the ARB hands down.

Note - with a auto-locker (Lokka, Detroit) even with one hub unlocked you still can't drive in 4H on road as all the power is lost through that wheel (feels like a slipping clutch).

[RokToy4x4]

Hey Frank, how are you?

[Bitsamissin]

Hi Shane howz it going over there ?? Just got back from Cheezy's the car is looking good not long to go now. Getting very itchy now...............
I'll post some update pics later.
He just finshed a Surf (5 link front) and they ramped it (good flex) and it looks super cool. I was talking to the owner and he said when he saw the red links in mine he just had to have the same color for the BLING factor

[Rob e Gee]

Thanks again for all your thoughts and information. So I guess in all comes down to what you want and what you are propared to loose..

. 1. Losses, X..dollars...super select...some driveability in 4x4

Gains...,,heaps of traction

2. Losses, XX..dollars

Gains...,,heaps of traction

Talking to you guys makes the choise a little clearer as to what you want and what you get. I had a talk to one ARB. fellow and he has never done a pajero front locker before. He wanted my car for 2days he estemated about 14 hours work and...$2.4K...I said goodby ( politely)....
I will ring around a couple of other ARB. dealers to see what I can come up with......CHEERS.....

If at first you dont succeed ....do it right the next time

[Bitsamissin]

Out of the August 2004 ARB price list :-
- RD110 = $1195 + $420 fitting = $1616
- RDCKA compressor = $273 + $140 fitting = $413
- Tyre inflation kit = $56

Total = $2085 (don't accept $1 more).

[Bitsamissin]

Bloody amazing - http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=29629

[Rob e Gee]

I got a second quote in another town 135kls up the hiway . I told him I had another quote from some one else dut I didnt say how much, and his price was

RD110=$1172
air-compressor=$273
All up with installation=$1955....but no tyre inflation kit.

This is more on the mark,(by the way the first bloke quoted $1275 for the RD110)... The only down side is that it is so far away .... but for that kind of saving I would lose one days pay no worries

That LUX diff looked very sad..

[Begbie]

For 2k why not consider the traction control http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=28873

The guy who makes/distributes it gives some good arguments for and against.

The question seems to be for those considering traction control vs locker - are you realoly as hardcore as you think you are? Seems you could do almost everything you can do with a locker, but less chance of breaking CVs? If you're spending 2k wouldnt you ahve to consider it?

[Rob e Gee]

That traction control setup does appear to be the ULTIMATE ..4X4.system especally for weekend and club outings and for 99% of 4x4 drivers...

Unfortunatly it isnt on the market at the moment and although they say it will be soon,.... that could be another 2years. I ripped a CV.boot on the Oct. longweekend and i want to get it fixed before christmas because i will be doing a fair bit of beach driving.......So if i have to get a bit of the front work done i might as well do the lot......(A bird in the hand is ....well you know!!!.)

[Adomw]

Rob

I have the ARB in the front of my Nj Parero and the best thing about it is that when its switched off the vehicle is completely unaffected

with any of the auto lockers you can't turn them off so as soon as you engage AWD or 4WD you have a locked front axel which make you turning circle and general steerablity woefull which is a huge pain in the butt if you do alot of beach / sand work

if you can afford it go for the ARB iar locker

Ado

[pajero97]

I said it before and I'll say it again, there is NO woeful steering when using a LOKKA. I cannot see ANY compromise in steering. Turning circle seems fine.

Rob, I did send you a reply to your email address.

[Adomw]

How would you know mate you can't turn the thing off to make comparisons

Ado

[RoldIT]

I said it before and I'll say it again, there is NO woeful steering when using a LOKKA. I cannot see ANY compromise in steering. Turning circle seems fine.

Yep, it's probably not working!

[Bitsamissin]

Mate it must not be working, 2 mates of mine have front Lokka's (IFS 4 Runner & live axle Lux) and they complain all the time.
You new the Detroit was there in 4x4 in mine just ask Blair (Noisey) if he's noticed any steering changes in 4x4 (he has my old Detroit now).

[pajero97]

LOL - You guys just believe if it isn't an ARB that there couldn't be possibly anything as competitive.

It doesn't take Einstein to work out if the front wheels lock, but just to clarify for those obtuse few: yes, they are definitely working. When placing the Super Select into, what would have been ‘all wheel drive’, now is having positive lock on the front wheels. Beach work in “all wheel drive” would have been nigh impossible in this mode.

Maybe your mates have difficulties with theirs but when installed correctly, they work great.

Now go play with your $2,000 ARB switch……….on, off, on, off – no wait, off, on, off, on ( gee, that’s fun).

[-Scott-]

Pajero97

Spend some more time exploring this board, and read a few of the other threads on auto-lockers vs switched lockers (ARB or other...)

There's a significant number of highly experienced 4wders on this board who have had autolockers, and didn't like the steering compromises. Even some who have posted in this thread have had autolockers in the front of their vehicles for significantly longer than you have, and experienced problems with their steering.

You've had yours for ... 1 month? Yeah, OK, I'll believe you over everybody else. Oh, oops, I forgot - I've got a $1200 airlocker. Silly me...

Scott

[Bitsamissin]

Ok then try this, put it in 4Hi (centre diff unlocked) and go for a drive on a main road from a standing start.
If you don't change lanes with every gear change (especially the lower gears) there's something wrong. With each gear change the steering wheel wants to rip out of your hand.
In this mode on a gravel/dirt road under power or a gear change you cannot tell me you notice no difference at all ???
Wait till you hit a slippery/muddy off camber trail and then tell me your steering is unaffected ??? With minimal tyre to ground traction the car will not steer it will just go straight ahead even with the wheels turned. It will not unlock in those conditions and allow you to steer. This is where an ARB is king as you can just turn it off.
The more you drive it in different conditions you will notice these things.
I am not shitcanning auto-lockers outright but they do have side effects that you don't seem to be aware of or will acknowledge but in time you will see what we are talking about.

[Ian Sharpe]

Better still try this,

put the vechicle up on 3 jack stands , leaving one front wheel on the ground

engage 4wd low or high.

If the vehicle wants to drive off the stands with only one front wheel with traction then you are Ok, your front locker is working. If the raised front wheel just spins & you dont go anywhere, your front locker is not working.

BTW I have the front air locker & the steering is noticeably heavier & self centreing all the time. If your lokka is working then you cant not have the same effect , since your lokka is basically locked most of the time except on cornering.

[RoldIT]

Ok then try this, put it in 4Hi (centre diff unlocked) and go for a drive on a main road from a standing start.
If you don't change lanes with every gear change (especially the lower gears) there's something wrong. With each gear change the steering wheel wants to rip out of your hand.
In this mode on a gravel/dirt road under power or a gear change you cannot tell me you notice no difference at all ???
Wait till you hit a slippery/muddy off camber trail and then tell me your steering is unaffected ??? With minimal tyre to ground traction the car will not steer it will just go straight ahead even with the wheels turned. It will not unlock in those conditions and allow you to steer. This is where an ARB is king as you can just turn it off.
The more you drive it in different conditions you will notice these things.
I am not shitcanning auto-lockers outright but they do have side effects that you don't seem to be aware of or will acknowledge but in time you will see what we are talking about.

Yep, what Frank said.

Even as a passenger I could tell the handling differences after Noisey's front Detroit install. Doesn't mean it's a POS, but there are differences to be considered.

I'm not an ARB fanatic but any stretch but there are pros and cons to both.

Try not to be a dick on your 5th post and tell us how much you know and how much we don't. That's why this is a DISCUSSION forum ...

Noooooowwwww, ready ............ GO!

[pajero97]

Spend some more time exploring this board, and read a few of the other threads on auto-lockers vs switched lockers (ARB or other...)

There's a significant number of highly experienced 4wders on this board who have had autolockers, and didn't like the steering compromises. Even some who have posted in this thread have had autolockers in the front of their vehicles for significantly longer than you have, and experienced problems with their steering.

You've had yours for ... 1 month? Yeah, OK, I'll believe you over everybody else. Oh, oops, I forgot - I've got a $1200 airlocker. Silly me...

With this statement YOUR claiming that all autolockers have adverse affects with their steering. I’ve also read lots of posts (from this board and others) that Lokkas have proved their worth (not detroits). I’m not disputing the fact that in all situations LOKKAS may not perform. What I am saying is that there is a valid alternative instead of spending $1900 (which I was quoted) for an ARB for my Pajero. I wouldn't spend this type of money on a locker. If I were more wealthy I would consider it, but since I’m not, I won't.

Ok then try this, put it in 4Hi (centre diff unlocked) and go for a drive on a main road from a standing start.
If you don't change lanes with every gear change (especially the lower gears) there's something wrong. With each gear change the steering wheel wants to rip out of your hand.
In this mode on a gravel/dirt road under power or a gear change you cannot tell me you notice no difference at all ???

Yes, I do notice a difference in steering; a slight heaviness back to centre but with power steering this is only a minor thing. I will endeavour to try the jack test though.

Try not to be a dick on your 5th post and tell us how much you know and how much we don't.

I’m attempting to counteract all the ARB cohorts and if that means telling a few facts & coming off more superior, well, so be it. By the way, this is my fourth post.

[-Scott-]

Spend some more time exploring this board, and read a few of the other threads on auto-lockers vs switched lockers (ARB or other...)

There's a significant number of highly experienced 4wders on this board who have had autolockers, and didn't like the steering compromises. Even some who have posted in this thread have had autolockers in the front of their vehicles for significantly longer than you have, and experienced problems with their steering.

You've had yours for ... 1 month? Yeah, OK, I'll believe you over everybody else. Oh, oops, I forgot - I've got a $1200 airlocker. Silly me...

With this statement YOUR claiming that all autolockers have adverse affects with their steering. I’ve also read lots of posts (from this board and others) that Lokkas have proved their worth (not detroits). I’m not disputing the fact that in all situations LOKKAS may not perform. What I am saying is that there is a valid alternative instead of spending $1900 (which I was quoted) for an ARB for my Pajero. I wouldn't spend this type of money on a locker. If I were more wealthy I would consider it, but since I’m not, I won't.

Maybe I missed something, but I was not aware that anybody was claiming that ALL autolockers have adverse affects with their steering. I have been reading that a large number of (note: not ALL) people with autolockers report steering problems, and that as far as I can tell, every brand of autolocker is represented in that group. Yes, some people (in addition to yourself) report no problems. However, from my point of view, there is a risk (of steering problems) associated with using autolockers - of any brand. I'm happy to pay the extra money to avoid that risk.

Try not to be a dick on your 5th post and tell us how much you know and how much we don't.

I’m attempting to counteract all the ARB cohorts and if that means telling a few facts & coming off more superior, well, so be it. By the way, this is my fourth post.

According to the board's software this was your fifth post - I guess you lost.

Scott

(Pleased with himself for resisting the temptation to pick on grammatical errors! )

[RoldIT]

Yes, I do notice a difference in steering; a slight heaviness back to centre but with power steering this is only a minor thing.

But didn't you say ...

I said it before and I'll say it again, there is NO woeful steering when using a LOKKA. I cannot see ANY compromise in steering. Turning circle seems fine.

... and ....

Try not to be a dick on your 5th post and tell us how much you know and how much we don't.

... By the way, this is my fourth post.

Are you sure?

[pajero97]

Steering going back to centre I wouldn't call “woeful”. If you had to fight the wheel to turn a corner, well, I’d call that woeful.

My comment about the "fourth post" was regarding this thread not the entire board . Pick away on grammatical errors! If that excites you, be my guest.

The fact still remains that my LOKKA still works great!!

Happy 4wding fellas.