94 defender

[griff]

there's a 94 defender tdi wagon for sale in katherine.

290k's, reco'drear axles, serviced, head hasn't stuffed up (yet?..)

needs a seal job on the top of transfer case - bloke has been quoted $700ish

has - roof rack + ladders, cargo barrier, skiny rims (needs tyres), standard range tank, new a/c, water tank - usual touring stuff...

trouble is: i live remote, havn't seen car, bloke is chasing $10 000

what say you??

doesn't 'clunk' or have any rust. have driven a few of these and been impressed but never owned one.

interested inpeolple'srespnes, bloke wasn't sur if it was 200 or 300tdi, also whn did bosch (non-prince-of-darkness) electrics appear? Is an Isuzu 3.9 County a better buy,although much older?

[sclarke7171]

there's a 94 defender tdi wagon for sale in katherine.

290k's, reco'drear axles, serviced, head hasn't stuffed up (yet?..)

needs a seal job on the top of transfer case - bloke has been quoted $700ish

has - roof rack + ladders, cargo barrier, skiny rims (needs tyres), standard range tank, new a/c, water tank - usual touring stuff...

trouble is: i live remote, havn't seen car, bloke is chasing $10 000

what say you??

doesn't 'clunk' or have any rust. have driven a few of these and been impressed but never owned one.

interested inpeolple'srespnes, bloke wasn't sur if it was 200 or 300tdi, also whn did bosch (non-prince-of-darkness) electrics appear? Is an Isuzu 3.9 County a better buy,although much older?

Thats on the cheaper side. unless it has had the transfer rebuilt at one stage it will need and output shaft on the gearbox and the input gear on the Transfer. No landy with 300k on the clock will survive the dreded input gear wear unless it has been fixed. Ask him if it has. other wise factor in another $2500-$3500 to do it properly.

$10k is not bad, screw him to 9k..... Ohh see if it is Vent disc up front and see if it is a R380 box, 94 was the change over for alot of things on Fenders.

Mine is a 200tdi 94 model, LT77 box, Vented Disc front, disc rear. odd combination...

[griff]

Thanks for the reply,

Is the post 94 (300) a better vehicle:stronger g/box, more reliable electrics etc?

Is the Isuzu County prone to these transfer case and g/box probs??

Cheers Griff

[sclarke7171]

OK the 300 is a better engine if it has been looked after. they had a timing belt problem, but a fix was issued in the 90's for it. if it has 300k then it will have this fix.
in 94 they started the swap over the R380 gearbox is better then the LT77.

Electrics are the same from 92-98 or there abouts.

Countys with isuzu engine are good, but not a par on the 200 or 300 in drivability off road..... Countys have stronger CV's and that is it....

id say look at the 94 model and see what it is.... it is mid level in price.... bargin 94's go for 7k top ones about 14k.

My 94 was 11k with 200k on the clock and imaculate...... its not now....

[Maggot4x4]

Countys with isuzu engine are good, but not a par on the 200 or 300 in drivability off road

That is the biggest load of CRAP I have ever heard!

The county is by far the better vehicle, the Isuzu 4BD1 is the best motor ever put in a landy IMO. No timming belts to worry about, it's gear driven. The gear box if 5 speed will be an LT85 Santana, probably the strongest 5 speed in a Landy (Some will disagree and say an R380 is stronger) with LT230. If 4 speed will be an LT95, this combo is still used by the Aust. army.

Strongest factory drivetrain and diffs that LR made (bar the 101FC) & coils just like a fender.

300-400km is the expected service life of a TDI, Isuzu 4BD1 is 600km in a 6 tonne isuzu truck, so how long do you thing it will last in a 2.5 tonne landy? Ask the army.

[andrew e]

Thanks for the reply,

Is the Isuzu County prone to these transfer case and g/box probs??

Cheers Griff

my 5 speed in my county broke a main shaft without trying. go the 4 speed if you want an isuzu.

Andrew.

[sclarke7171]

Countys with isuzu engine are good, but not a par on the 200 or 300 in drivability off road

That is the biggest load of CRAP I have ever heard!

The county is by far the better vehicle, the Isuzu 4BD1 is the best motor ever put in a landy IMO. No timming belts to worry about, it's gear driven. The gear box if 5 speed will be an LT85 Santana, probably the strongest 5 speed in a Landy (Some will disagree and say an R380 is stronger) with LT230. If 4 speed will be an LT95, this combo is still used by the Aust. army.

Strongest factory drivetrain and diffs that LR made (bar the 101FC) & coils just like a fender.

300-400km is the expected service life of a TDI, Isuzu 4BD1 is 600km in a 6 tonne isuzu truck, so how long do you thing it will last in a 2.5 tonne landy? Ask the army.

OK so i'm wrong. Take your anger out elsewhere. I cant remember 1 time i replyed witht he attitude you just did. You made your point.
Sometimes its easyier to say "Sorry your wrong" then spill the facts.
My reasoning we due to my experiance. Not the army or the fact an isuzu last longer in a truck. If they were so good why did LR scrap them for the 200 and 300?. Just my thoughts with no anger attached.
You cant also gauge the time frame a vehilce will last form the Army's point. They treat stuff like crap and if they get 100k from a vehicle its a miricle. OK they might prove in their situation that the isuzu suits their neds better, but i would say in my eyes that the 200 and 300 are a better engine for the general public. Timing belts only give problems when not looked after. Every 100k on a 200 and every 80k on a 300. Belts are better long term. That has been proven time and time again. Every engine designed in the 40's to 60's was gear drive (some exceptions) then the belts came out. Quieter and more simplistic. All these guys that have belt failure is due to lack of maintenance or incorrect fitment. ive broken a belt on a sedan and it was due to lack of maintenace. ive also broken gears on a car. How did it happen??? oil was there, engine was not stressed and it was a high quality euro car. So there is pro's and cons for every side. You expressed your opinion, i just expessed mine again.

[Bush65]

IMHO the 4BD1 was the best engine ever fitted by the factory into a rover. I have both a 300Tdi and 4BD1-T and have had 3.5 and 4.6 v8's in the past.

Far more reliable and more torque from idle than either 200Tdi or 300Tdi. They will do 1/2 million km between o/haul if treated properly. And no electrics (except starter and alternator - and if they fail the engine will still run happily).

I would say there are several reasons why rover discontinued the 4BD1 in favour of the 200Tdi, but none to do with the 200Tdi being better in any way (which it isn't).

Early R380 have a bad rep for breaking mainshafts. The later ones are much stronger. I doubt the R380 is as strong as an LT85.

[ISUZUROVER]

IMHO the 4BD1 was the best engine ever fitted by the factory into a rover.

I agree. I have a county with a 4BD1 (and LT85), and have owned a V8 county, and driven quite a few (tweaked and stock) 300Tdis (forgetting the multitudes of series trucks for a moment).

In termy of general driveability on road, my NA 4BD1 goes as well or better than the mildly tweaked 300's I have driven.

The only disadvantage of the 4BD1 is it is big, heavy and slightly noisy, but all this is outweighed by the low rpm torque, durability and strength, and ease of servicing of the engine - and ease of turbocharging an NA engine.

Perfectly happy with the LT85 too - Andrew e - maybe your mainshaft had defects or was fatigued by a shuddering clutch etc... That sort of failure is pretty rare IME.

[andrew e]

yes, it may have been fatigued (about 340000kms if my memory is correct) and i dont want to sound like i'm rubbishing the lt85, but when somthing breaks, i like to go stronger rather than just replace, and since almost everyone says the lt95 4 speed is the strongest box rover produced, thats whats in mine now. The 5 speed was a nicer box to drive with (the 4 speed has truck like tendencies) and gee how i do miss that 5th gear EVERY dam day doing 110 on the freeway.

If you are planning to keep the car standard with 750 16s i would keep the lt85.

and as for why landrover stopped putting 4bd1s in their aus models, the reason i heard was that the poms couldnt sleep at night with a jap motor under their bonnet and always considered it temporary.

Andrew.

[sclarke7171]

What ever the reason, it seems the Isuzu has some benefits.
Weight would not be one i would think.

also the 200 and 300 have no electrics apart from the alt and starter.

[ISUZUROVER]

Countys have stronger CV's and that is it....
.

This also needs to be corrected...

Advantages of a county over a defender (besides the CV's and the engine/gearbox):

Stronger rear trailing arms (much larger diameter)
Wider spaced bearings in hubs (early 200's had this too)
Better rear axle shaft lubrication and better quality rear axles stock
Better air-con system (cools more than just your knees and is in the dash - not taking up legroom)
Stronger roof (2 extra ribs)
Load leveller in the rear so you can run softer springs for more travel

[Maggot4x4]

OK so i'm wrong. Take your anger out elsewhere.

Not angry, but that was just crap, no other way to put it.

[griff]

Geeez.. How's about that?..

Looks like the bloody thing has gone, anyway, wasn't able to drive out to Katherine as planned.

Back to the drawing board...

Thanks for all your replies and opinions gentlemen.
Griff

[Bush65]

What ever the reason, it seems the Isuzu has some benefits.
Weight would not be one i would think.

also the 200 and 300 have no electrics apart from the alt and starter.

Yes the Isuzu is heavy - about what you would expect from a heavy duty diesel. Dimensions and weight are very similar to Cummins 4BT.

300Tdi and I would think also 200Tdi have solenoid fuel cutoff on injector pump. So engine can't run without power to the solenoid.

My 4BD1-T has mechanical fuel cutoff. If all electrics including battery fail (and I have known of someone getting stuck in a remote area when battery failed). If the Isuzu can be bump started or started with jumper from another battery it will continue to run.

IMHO inline pumps as used on 4BD1 are better than VE pumps on 200/300Tdi.

300Tdi (and I think 200Tdi) have 2 stage injectors that aren't used on any other engine. The 2 stage design makes the engine run smoother, but no diesel service people are able to service or test them properly - only the 1st stage.

I don't agree with your earlier remark about belts being better than gears. BTW Rover issued a service bulletin to reduce the tension of the belt because it has led to premature failure of the injector pump, but it is not common knowledge as far as I can tell and people still use the old tension stated in the workshop manual.

BTW I think the 300Tdi is a better engine than a lot of Toyota and Nissan diesels.

But Isuzu would not the largest manufacturer of diesels in the world if they could not design and build a better diesel than Rover (they have produced some poor engines, but the 4BD1 is not one of them).