help me turbo or s/c my zook :)

[Santos]

Well here is what ebay turned up

a SC12

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=72478&item=4545453813&rd=1

and two SC14

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=72469&item=4545856465&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32624&item=4545874128&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

and so you can all read up on it
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2147/article.html

At 1200cc and 1400cc per revolution it would be almost a 1:1 ratio... Easier to work out to get a nice 5-8psi boost? (What would be a optimium boost for the rev range?)


Anyway, i always like the idea of 'Stealth' mods so the AMR300 and AMR500 being tiny still seem the better choice but the nagging little thing at my mind is Mark pointing out the high revolutions rooting the blower after use worries me

So here's what i'm thinking... have all the plumbing under the engine maybe around the front of the engine and up the wheel arch to stock 'modiefied' airbox... Paint it with heatproof White (though of black but it would absorb more heat) and if the cops ask about it say it's the Airconditoning unit
(hey you could go get a plaque engraved in print for like $10-15 saying Air Conditioning Unit and attached it somewhere big and obvious )

[-Mick-]

why go to all that trouble santos Mod plate and insurance are not a hassle... why hide it

[bazooked]

here is what i found sum very interesting info...

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2147/article.html

ima goin to sc the gti motor i got at home if all goes to plan..

[Santos]

#sigh# and here i was waiting on it for me

Anyway that link looks awfully familiar
(beware of higboost on a Gti/cultus compression )

[-Mick-]

just a quick update. Got stuffed around a bit by the dude who will be approving it all but he called back yesterday and said its all good

Time to go shopping for a blower

[jcianci]

What happens when your in water?
Thats when you might want the power?
I have heard of situations like this before and it would be really frustrating.
Superchargers are way easier, but turbochargers will always be my choice, after all they use turbochargers on all the big trucks. As for lag, it doesnt matter how much air you can push into your motor, it needs to be able to swallow it effieciently, and that generally happens around 2500 to 3000 rpm. The right size turbo will match this power curve perfectly. I have just bought a ct12 turbo of the toyota soarer and have welded the internal gate up to put an external gate on it (music to my ears). Ill let you know how it goes when i finally get motivated to put it all together.

[benjamin78au]

a possible source for parts i come across is www.toymod.org.au
thinking i grab a sc12 and geta bracket made up.
any one know what sort of pully is on these chargers i don't think it is a normal v style belt. as the 1.6 efi has a differant style belt , then 1.3 (yeah as you guess i can't think right it a monday)

bj

[-Mick-]

that's a really good forum toymods... they hate rice too

post your question there they're really helpful, I had to ask a few q's about my old corolla engine conv and stuff

[Giles]

i had a chat to a mate thats into all that jazz and he said a super charger is good couse of the tourqe aspect but its ment to make ur engin brakes . really bad thats the only reason he went for trbo its a bit late now but if u set ur turbo up right u can get a lot of tourq out of em if anyone is interested in some turbo conversions or custom manifolds the number is
( sears outomotive 0411 117 801 his name is luke ) melbourne vic
hes doing my vitara ( t3 hi flow custom manifold front mount cooler)
it should be fun

[benjamin78au]

I thought about turbo, and do like the feeling as it comes on boost. but a supercharger is soo much easier to plumb and set up from what i understand. Just gotto find some one local that does a nice job.

anyone else have troubles registering for toymod forum, my explorer throws a hissy fit and shuts down. ( EDIT never mind i think it has to do with me trying to use hotmail seemed to work okay with a bigpond)

bj

[ausyota]

Has anyone got any info on the bolt on supercharger kit from Suzisport?
http://www.suzisport.com/shop/index.htm ... _1zo3.html
Down the bottom of the page.
Just under 2 Gs but includes fuel injection and progamable computer.
What bits do they use?
Paul.

[ausyota]

Well I emailed Suzisport for details a few days ago and havnt got a reply.

Sam are you still going to make a Supercharger kit?

[Crawford]

hey, you cant super charge a 1.3L carb can you?

Needs to be Fuel injected?

[1bigtracker]

hey, you cant super charge a 1.3L carb can you?

Needs to be Fuel injected?

yes you can. some carbs don't like it though.

stu

[BenT]

OK guys, this whole supercharging thing is pretty interesting, so I've got some questions.

Does anyone know roughly (or even better EXACTLY) how much boost the stock tbi efi computer will handle? I've seen plenty of guesses at about 5 psi, but its always nice to hear from someone whos actually done it.
Is it really as simple as plumbing in the charger with the stock computer? No driveability problems? Sounds a bit too good to be true!

Is the wee AMR supercharger big enough for a zuk 1600? Has anyone had one running?

Did you guys use bypass valve/blowoff valve? (Mud4B, Sam???) I think I can see one in the photo of the Baleno motor.

Cheers,

Ben

[zzzz]

OK guys, this whole supercharging thing is pretty interesting, so I've got some questions.

Does anyone know roughly (or even better EXACTLY) how much boost the stock tbi efi computer will handle? I've seen plenty of guesses at about 5 psi, but its always nice to hear from someone whos actually done it.
Is it really as simple as plumbing in the charger with the stock computer? No driveability problems? Sounds a bit too good to be true!

Is the wee AMR supercharger big enough for a zuk 1600? Has anyone had one running?

Did you guys use bypass valve/blowoff valve? (Mud4B, Sam???) I think I can see one in the photo of the Baleno motor.

Cheers,

Ben

I don't have specific suzuki experienience but have been looking at using an SC14 on my jeep which is a 4.0litre stright six.
The initial costs look cheap as the all you need is the charger, a bracket, the correct size pulley for the psi you want to make, and intake and throttle body piping.

But if you really want to do it correctly you may also need larger injectors (ford/bosch), air fuel ratio adjuster (apexi AFCII), timing retard (MSD) and some dyno tuning to make sure everything is under control.

The costs to do it on the cheap could be as low as $600 or so but you wouldn't know if your motor was running rich or lean or how long it will survive in that state.

The cost to do it right with all the ancillary parts and some dyno tuning would mean it might cost $1500-2000 but you would be confident in knowing that it would last quite a long time and you had covered all bases.

Apologies if that doesn't apply to the zuki engines.

cheers

z

[BenT]

But if you really want to do it correctly you may also need larger injectors (ford/bosch), air fuel ratio adjuster (apexi AFCII), timing retard (MSD) and some dyno tuning to make sure everything is under control.

z

Thats very true, and part of what I'm trying to find out I guess... The zuk EFI system is MAP sensor based, so it may cope quite well with boost. No one seems to be having to do any re-maping, so it may be all good. But then it also seems these motors haven't ended up running for that long for whatever reason, so it may not be that reliable?

Its not worth it in my book if fuel interceptors or new computers are required, but if stock will work well without remapping, then it really is cheap. Chargers seem to be around $200, and the mount and piping look pretty trivial.

Ben

[Rhett]

I went and looked at a suzi ute yesterday that had a huge turbo on it. It was for sale all modded plated. Any way the 1.3 looked fairly standard but the owner insisterd it had different pistons. Some sort of side draft webber on it and methanol injection. He said the thing hammered up to about 70 the cars started to catch up. Any way me and my navi are doing some deals so we get the motor And have a better look at it. And put it on the dyno. Will tell U how it goes in a few weeks hopefully.

[chunkz]

so much for the write up and the last guys reply

once again sorry for diggin up an old topic guys....

just some questions...

whats the fuel economy like with the sc? turbo?
no one said aything about what the other bloke said about your sc in the water... (what happens) ???
umm what else
whats your take off like? caus mines a daily driver, and yeh i dont mind a little power

what would be better... this or a commodore engine conversion?
thanks guys

[benjamin78au]

well at moment , i have a 1.6 efi , with 235s on a 40 liter tank , i can squeeze out to about 350, where as mate with a turbo has nearly twice the fuel capacity and about the same 350 k range, so yeah basicly more power got to chew more fuel.

bj

[chunkz]

ouch!!

[Gwagensteve]

With correct fuelling, the rough formula for fuel consumption is 0.5 lb fuel per horsepower per hour.

Chunkz, I think you will find that around 100hp is plenty for a sierra. At about this figure, the stock driveline will be reasonably reliable and there are a number of ways to get 100hp out of suzuki parts- even a moderately tuned 1.6 EFI motor will run 100hp.

turbo, supercharging especially with carbs or patched together efi fiddles will result in short engine life and a whole lot of fiddling.

No stock suzuki 4 cylinder is designed to take boost. That is not to say that you can;t run boost through them, but temperature, ignition and fuel control will be really critical.

If your car gets a little bit warm on hot days or off road now, or pings a bit under high load/low revs (even brand new sierras did both of these things) then how can anyone think that that motor can take boost?- there is no way that you can put more heat through this motor, long term. sure you can take heaps of timing out of it, but htne you are just throwing power away only to try and get it back with boost.

IMHO f you want a commodire V6 buy a commodore. The commodore motor is so wrong for a sierra that by the time you beef everyhting else up to handle the 175+ HP of the V6, plus the weight over the front axle etc, you end up with a car that no longer behaves like a suzuki.

[chunkz]

lol so im stuck with a pos slow car...
ahwell may aswell do exhaust n extractors get all that i can out of this pos

[-Mick-]

so much for the write up and the last guys reply

hard to do a write up on something that never happened huh

[Gutless]

IMHO f you want a commodire V6 buy a commodore. The commodore motor is so wrong for a sierra that by the time you beef everyhting else up to handle the 175+ HP of the V6, plus the weight over the front axle etc, you end up with a car that no longer behaves like a suzuki.

I couldn't agree more.

After having done this conversion, and then consequently having to retire my zook from on-road use due to the wieght over the front axle effecting steering and handling, to the point of it be outright dangerous to drive over 40kph, I cannot stress strongly enough how silly this conversion is for anybody who is even entertaining the though of driving the once converted sierra on the road.

Aim for 80-90 kw from a tuned 1.6EFI and you will be able to roast 31's at command, and hopefully not do too much damage to the rather frail driveline....

JMO
Pete

[Santos]

No stock suzuki 4 cylinder is designed to take boost. That is not to say that you can't run boost through them, but temperature, ignition and fuel control will be really critical.

i'd have to disagree here, the G10a turbo may be a 3 cyl but it is very much the same bore and stroke as the g13, ok it may not evr been available in Australia but Japan, US and Canada had them and it gets alot of praise for mild tuning with realibility. Interesting to note is that the internals are NOT forged, so a stock G13 is in the same boat, piston aside.

Our Swift brethren around the world have thrown up numerous twincam and sohc turbo's, plenty of knowledge to gather from.


I think the real problem is no one one has perfected the formula in our comunities, with a 1.6 you buy the adaptor kit, fit in a fuel pump and splice in the ecu or go aftermarket.

What if adaptor kits weren't available? Would it be as easy a process for everyone... probably not, i know i couldn't do it... i have no cutting and welding equipment

[Dee]

Sorry for the dig...

My mate wants to s/c his 1.3 with the 4agze supercharger... But its still carb.

After reading this maybe i should talk him into putting the money towards efi conversion?

He wanted to get out of it relatively cheap... thats why he wanted the supercharger, (bolt up, pulley, belts & plumbing) But im concerned about this carb thing. Whats the problem with trying to go carb? Seals/diaphragms etc?

Ball park what is efi conversion worth?

[lay80n]

There was a EFI kit going 2nd hand for $350 the other day in for sale. The vit single point fuel injection manifold will bolt up, and then you just need to sort out the wiring loom, and the rest o the fuel system to match. Plus then his car will run on angles. Carby motor with SC will still stall out on angles.
Layto....

[Dee]

Ok thanks layto,

he does do a little bit of wheeling, but i dont think he does enough to worry about stalling on angles. He is running 31's (on when he bought it) and gearing seems to have changed as it seems to go ok... (with exhaust/extractors)

He just wants a bit more go out of it.. For both around town/wheeling and highway driving.

Is it possible to hook up supercharger with carb? I was having a chat to someone the other day and he said something about problems with having different pressures between inside and outside of carb?

Could we mount carb before the sc and pull the fuel mixture through the supercharger? (stupid question?)

And what is the go with ECU etc... what is needed (assuming we could go carb).

If not and we had to go tbi, will we have to upgrade to aftermarket ecu?

[lay80n]

Yeah you can run the carb either before or after the S/C. Look at the old blown motors in monaro's etc. they run the carbs above the s/c. Suck through setup (carb before s/c) is easier, as the float bowl vent etc does not have to be pressurised, where as is you pump compressed air into the carby, you must match that pressure in the float bowl etc or it wont run. Also you wont be able to creat vacum with a blow through, meaning you will have to find another source of vacum for you vacum advance etc.
Layto....