mechanical advice appreciated...

[ferguson]

hey all,

i've had some noise developing under the feroza for the past 3-4 weeks, sounds like the clinking together of 2 metal surfaces. popped into pedders today for a $14 28 point suspension check. i was pretty confident that they'd find more than just a rattle underneath. i'm guessing that the "check" is a means to generate some work for themselves (no offence to any mechanics out there), and this is what they've come up with;

*rattling is shocks RH side, quoted for new VRD shocks
*leafs very dry, needs rebuild
*bushes very dry, inspect on dismantle

quoted $650 parts and labour for the above work. how's all that sound??

also on the report, but not included in the quote, is written;
*driveshafts moving in hubs
which the guy said would cost approx $300 to remove and refit, just to have a look. does this sound like a major problem??

any points of view would be much appreciated...

also grabbed an over the phone quote for a total engine rebuild, only made 1 call, haven't looked around at all, or looked at other options. was just curious as i'm going through 1L of oil every 800kms or so, not really blowing smoke, no coolant in oil or vice versa, engine a little wet in places but no oil puddles under car. loss of power and oil usage mainly. 115ks/hr at 4000 rpm dies in the arse going up any sort of a hill and have to down shift, otherwise goes well... quote $2800, 12mths and unlimited kms warranty, i almost choked on my wheat bix when he said the price.
how's that sound??? (apart from sh*t that is... )

[RockyF75]

If you want a no BS quote on exactly what needs and doesn't need doing call my mechanic (PM coming your way ), hes in wilberforce but I reckon he could easily save you some $$, he has me He pretty swamped with work actually so he wont fish you for more

Never knew you could rebuild the leaves?? Do they mean 're-set'?? You can get new polyuerethan(sp?) bushes for about $150max f+r - 20 mins to fit. New front springs, maybe $300 for a pair (i paid ~$600 for all 4 of mine, 2" lifted), do feroza's have a leaf front aswell Leave's are easy to fit too , maybe 1/2hr per corner. But my guessing at the price is for NEW leaves/bushes. Dunno what they priced you for.

Engine rebuilds are always exxy but i reckon visit my mech first.

[murcod]

For the rattle I'd recommend swapping your shocks over (or simply pulling them out and trying to replicate the noise.) I've got a similar noise from that side over large bumps and am suspicious of the RHS engine mount (rubber compressed and mount rubbing metal on metal.) The front shocks are fairly easy to replace yourself too.

I don't know how they intend to rebuild your leaf springs?! Are they standard Daihatsu ones? If so, they have plastic rubbing blocks between the leafs and I doubt they would need replacing....

The rebuild price- well it's hard to define exactly what a "rebuild" is. Ask for a detailed list of what they plan to do to the engine.

[ferguson]

i think they're standard leafs, hasn't been lifted etc... the noise is definately in the rear. everything they have scribbled in their report applies to the rear except the bit about the "driveshafts moving in hubs" ??

[murcod]

So it's the rear shocks and the noise is in the rear too? Sorry I misread the original post!

Check the shocks by swapping over, paying attention to the bushes top and bottom (may be worn.) Could also be worth checking the U bolts, shackles etc are tight. The noise might also be the rubber bushes in the shackles? Try liberally spraying everything with silicon spray (including in between the leafs, bushes etc) and see if that improves things. Just avoid spraying it near the brake drums.

[MightyMouse]

My ten cents worth on the "driveshafts moving in hubs" comment. Whilst I
dont know how bad it is - they all move in the hubs. When you pull them apart the shafts are retained in the hubs by a single circlip which stops them pulling out and there is a phosphor bronze bush to "support" the shaft at the rear of the upright.

You can't buy replacement bushes - they are "not servicable" according to Daihatsu - which is a load of #$%^ - I machined up new ones and it was dead simple.

But the funny thing is - it didn't make any difference anyway, it was actually the brake pad rattleing in the calliper, not the driveshaft.

So IMO treat the driveshaft comment VERY carefully....

[Fearhoza]

ive got a metal rattling sound when the engine is under load in my fez. sounds like two little metal bits ticking and hitting each other really fast. doesnt happen under normal driving. just when accelerating and changing gears. its like.

t-ck-tick-ti-ck-ticktickitck kinda sound. havent figured out what it is. from the engine though.

[SimplyPV]

personally, the rebuild comments on leaves are junk. dont ever go back there again. grease up your leaves like murcod said, also grease up the eyes/bushings as well. my roza made noises in that area and went away as long as i kept em fairly greased up. that area tends to dry out from wheelin and normal road use anyways. so they're blowin smoke up your arse. if that doesnt cure it, then check your brake drums and make sure everything is snug and tight. i would advice tearing your dumps apart and cleaning them out if greasing the leaves doesnt do anything. if that doesnt work, THEN do the shocks. often times shocks dont make much noise until AFTER they're shagged and worn. trust me you'd notice by the ride and the horrible rebound you'd get.

[HotFourOk]

I have to stand up for Pedders here somewhat.

My Rocky had flogged out a steering idler soon after I got it and I had it replaced with a genuine item. In a month this new idler also became flogged out so I decided to get the $14 check done.

In the final report all it said was that the steering idler arm needed replacing and possibly one of the rear arm bushes (not urgent).

I was happy how they didn't make up stuff that needed fixing just to try and make a quick dollar.

Just my 2c so everyone knows they aren't criminals (In Gateshead anyway )

[RockyF75]

ive got a metal rattling sound when the engine is under load in my fez. sounds like two little metal bits ticking and hitting each other really fast. doesnt happen under normal driving. just when accelerating and changing gears. its like.

t-ck-tick-ti-ck-ticktickitck kinda sound. havent figured out what it is. from the engine though.

was gunna say uni-joint, until read comming from engine.. u sure??

I have to stand up for Pedders here somewhat.

My Rocky had flogged out a steering idler soon after I got it and I had it replaced with a genuine item. In a month this new idler also became flogged out so I decided to get the $14 check done.

In the final report all it said was that the steering idler arm needed replacing and possibly one of the rear arm bushes (not urgent).

I was happy how they didn't make up stuff that needed fixing just to try and make a quick dollar.

Just my 2c so everyone knows they aren't criminals (In Gateshead anyway )

WOW, so you paid them $14 and they told you what you already knew was wrong Great plug for them and money well spent

[ferguson]

thanks for the advice...

i've just changed the front pads and they were stuffed so i guess it would be wise to have a look at the rear brakes also...

the ride up the back seems ok. it's a hard ride but i thought that was par for the course with the leafs in the roza. for what it's worth, when i jump up and down on the tow ball she seems to have a solid spring back, a bit squeeky, but solid

it sounds more like somethings loose... at least i've got a few targets to aim at now

thanks again all...

[murcod]

My bet is it's your shackle and eye bushes squeaking. Mine were doing the same (when bouncing up and down on the tow bar) until a liberal dose of silicone spray fixed them.

[HotFourOk]

I have to stand up for Pedders here somewhat.

My Rocky had flogged out a steering idler soon after I got it and I had it replaced with a genuine item. In a month this new idler also became flogged out so I decided to get the $14 check done.

In the final report all it said was that the steering idler arm needed replacing and possibly one of the rear arm bushes (not urgent).

I was happy how they didn't make up stuff that needed fixing just to try and make a quick dollar.

Just my 2c so everyone knows they aren't criminals (In Gateshead anyway )

WOW, so you paid them $14 and they told you what you already knew was wrong Great plug for them and money well spent

I had to eliminate that any problem in my front end was causing the idler to fail before I went and argued that the part was faulty.

It worked too I pulled out the inspection report and they gave me a new idler arm. Without it they wouldn't have replaced it.
Hmmm, so $14 to get $200 back aint bad, is it.

[ferguson]

My bet is it's your shackle and eye bushes squeaking. Mine were doing the same (when bouncing up and down on the tow bar) until a liberal dose of silicone spray fixed them.

yeah i figured the squeaking would be a little less critical, it's more the rattle i'm worried about. i'll try and get on to it this week...

thanks heaps

[Pommie B*stard]

My shackle bushes are shagged too, it creaks and groans like an Astmatic Donkey over ruff stuff!
I'm curing mine by fitting new bushes (and new longer shackles - lift = YAY!)
Have you checked the heat shield on the cat for rattles? (if yours has a cat). Just a thought.

Jon.

[Tzi]

I had a pedders test done when i got my fez, they sed there was something wrong with the driveshafts becasue they moved in and out so much.... after 18+ months i can tell you its nothing to worry about... theyre MEANT to do that, otherwise they would bind up when the suspension moved.
As someone sed, its just a circlip that holds them in.
As long as they dont move up and down heaps, and the only movement is towards or away from the wheel, theyre fine

mind you... pedders quoted me $1600 for new leafs and 4 new shocks + fitting.... so your $600ish doesnt sound too bad LOL

[spongebob]

fearoza wrote
ive got a metal rattling sound when the engine is under load in my fez. sounds like two little metal bits ticking and hitting each other really fast. doesnt happen under normal driving. just when accelerating and changing gears. its like.

t-ck-tick-ti-ck-ticktickitck kinda sound. havent figured out what it is. from the engine though


In relation to the ticking under load its sounds like the engine is pinging.... You either need to change your fuel to higher octane as the current fuels are crap - or retard the advance... If you dont change you will eventually (not too long) destroy the valves etc....

Also not sure about the noise in the back that has been discussed, however the best way to get leaf rear springs to work as they were designed is to oil between the leafs - open them up and use some engine oil to allow the leafs to move freely - in most cases after a period of time become rigid....

Cheers

[Goatse.AJ]

fearoza wrote
ive got a metal rattling sound when the engine is under load in my fez. sounds like two little metal bits ticking and hitting each other really fast. doesnt happen under normal driving. just when accelerating and changing gears. its like.

t-ck-tick-ti-ck-ticktickitck kinda sound. havent figured out what it is. from the engine though


In relation to the ticking under load its sounds like the engine is pinging.... You either need to change your fuel to higher octane as the current fuels are crap - or retard the advance... If you dont change you will eventually (not too long) destroy the valves etc....

Also not sure about the noise in the back that has been discussed, however the best way to get leaf rear springs to work as they were designed is to oil between the leafs - open them up and use some engine oil to allow the leafs to move freely - in most cases after a period of time become rigid....

Cheers

Definitely sounds like pinging to me.

If you're using a heap of oil, then you'll find that the bottom end is probably stuffed already. I've run 95 octane E10 in mine for the last 25000km and had no problems at all with pinging.

[ferguson]

hey all,

finally had a chance to jump under the roza today and check for 'the rattle'.

the top of the right rear shock was loose and was 'click clacking' around when i moved it. was the same noise i have been hearing for the last few weeks. tightened it up... noise gone. shocks otherwise seem ok, handles fine when driving, bounces back firm when i jump on it. everything else seemed ok too, bushes, U bolts, shackles...gave the leafs etc, a good soaking of silicon spray as murcod suggested... no more squeaks

gave the driveshafts a bit of a push as well... they move but only about 2mm?? as a few of you have suggested, i'm guessing that's normal.

next questions... why did the shock come loose in the 1st place? just the impact of off-roading?? are the shocks as easy to replace as they look? what is the prefered type/brand of replacement shocks that you guys would recommend?

thanks for all the help

[lay80n]

I had a pedders test done when i got my fez, they sed there was something wrong with the driveshafts becasue they moved in and out so much.... after 18+ months i can tell you its nothing to worry about... theyre MEANT to do that, otherwise they would bind up when the suspension moved.
As someone sed, its just a circlip that holds them in.
As long as they dont move up and down heaps, and the only movement is towards or away from the wheel, theyre fine

mind you... pedders quoted me $1600 for new leafs and 4 new shocks + fitting.... so your $600ish doesnt sound too bad LOL

Inner CV joint (tripot joint) is the joint that allows the front half shafts to extend and contract with suspension travel. There shouldn't be heaps of play in and out of a half shaft in the front hubs.


Layto....

[murcod]

Progress!

Mind you Pedders should have found that and reported it as being loose.....

For shocks are you looking at getting a lift - or do you have a lift at the moment and is it a F300 or F310?

...and how many $$$ do you want to spend!

[ferguson]

Progress!

Mind you Pedders should have found that and reported it as being loose.....

For shocks are you looking at getting a lift - or do you have a lift at the moment and is it a F300 or F310?

...and how many $$$ do you want to spend!

pedders report just says, "RH rattling", they recommended and quoted for 2 new VRD shocks...

the current shocks are old man emu. i have a '93 widetrack...(F310?) got a feeling it may have been lifted somehow, it does seem to sit a bit higher than others i've seen, but not really sure how to tell, shackels etc??

not sure where to put my 'tax refund' at the moment, as i said shocks seem to be ok as far as i can tell and maybe they can wait. when the time comes or if i do decide to do something to them now i'd want to go something decent for off-road. should i do all four at the same time?

was thinking engine rebuild/replacement also, as described earlier in this thread... power loss, oil usage. engine seems fine otherwise and was alternatively thinking extractors for a potential power gain until engine really starts to struggle...

[Goatse.AJ]

Got pics?

Sure we can tell you roughly how much lift it has from a decent profile pic on flat ground.

NOW, re engine rebuilding..... If it's using heaps of oil, chances are she's been pinging crazily for some time. I seen way too many people spend over $1000 on getting the head recoed, only to find the oil usage continues....verdict is usually a stuffed bottom end.

So your options there are replace with an Applause motor (CHEAPEST (around $800 to $1000 if you do it yourself), and a bit more on road grunt), or rebuild the whole engine........anything up to $2500-$3000, depending on who does it for you.

[murcod]

My advice would be to spend the $$$ and get the engine sorted first. Not much point spending big on suspension when your motor is possibly going to die in the near future.

Widetracks use different shocks to narrow tracks (ie mine) so I'll leave it to the wide track owners for suggestions. Search through some of the old threads and you should find info too.

[ferguson]

sometimes she seems to sit high to me, other times not... i dunno...

i'm getting no pinging at all, running it on shell optimax 98... not really blowing much smoke either

yeah, got one quote on the motor for a rebuild... $2800 or there abouts. are the applause motors low kms imports?? do they have a warranty ?? sorry if all these questions have been discussed 100 times before as i'm sure they have...

[murcod]

Looks lifted to me. What size tyres are they?

The engine warranty varies from place to place, most offer at least three months. The number of km will also vary and shouldn't always be taken as gospel.

For a cheap engine fix it is the way to go, just remember it can be a risky choice. (Same as you can get gearboxes for $500 from wreckers, but I spent the $$$ and got mine rebuilt as I didn't want to take the risk.)

[ferguson]

tyres are 235/75

so has anyone done the applause swap or know anyone who has, and how did it all go?

[murcod]

Definitely lifted if they're 235/75; I'd be guessing 2" ?

Do a bit of a search or look in the FAQ for the Applause swap. It was talked about recently too.

[Goatse.AJ]

Yeah, looks like 2" lift. Extended shackles will give you better rear articulation with some decent shocks.

I swapped in an Applause donk about 50,000km ago. Heaps of extra grunt, especially compared to the clapped out old one

Try Ichiban out near Liverpool, I got mine from there for (IIRC) around $895.00. I also bought a G16B for the Vitara I had at the time. Both have performed fantastically (the ex still has MY Vit ) . They had a few to choose from, so I had a look at 'em all and chose the ones that looked cleanest inside. Pull the dipstick and have a look to see how clean the residual oil is on it (they obviously drain 'em for shipping), but the little bit left in there is generally a decent guide to the relative health of the motor. If it looks dirty or sludgy, give it a miss.

If you have any problems/questions when doing the swap, either search for "Applause" in here, or post up your questions and those of us that have done it should be able to help with info.

I also got a set of Hurricane extractors from Liverpool Exhausts while I was out there.

[murcod]

Take the oil filler cap off the top engine cover and look inside to see how clean it is too.