P76 help need ASAP

Post by **GURU** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:13 pm

G'day all,

got the P76 in my car but have some issue with starting. The motor seems to be locking up when trying to start, but then it frees up completely and and will start (haven't had it started long enough to tune it so it doesn't idle either). The starter motor is a RR unit and it has now died I believe due to too much cranking today. I have my old one (which is about 18 months old), I remember reading something about these when fitted to P76's, anyone remember what? I noticed this arvo that the RR starter motor stays constantly enguaged with flywheel by about 10mm. so I was just going to space it out.

Is it possible it was just the starter motor that was making the motor look like it was locking up and freeing up? or is it likely to be more serious.

motor wasn't rebuilt but it was running when i bought it, I saw it running, but has been sitting in upright postion for 6 months.

any thoughts will be muchly appreciated.

Post by **LowRanger** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:48 pm

Over advanced ignition timing will give that symptom,will also effect the idle.

Post by **Dozoor** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:16 pm

LowRanger wrote:Over advanced ignition timing will give that symptom,will also effect the idle.

Agree ,

Post by **radste** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:25 pm

Hi DAS,
i had a spacer 4 the starter motor that i gave to steve to fit a 3.5 starter into a 4.4.
it was only about 3mm thick & went around the starter like a collar.

HTH Steve

Post by **GURU** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:37 am

I'm was thinking that. But i would have to be a whole tooth out on the dizzy. I will play around some more tomorrow

starter is the biggest problem at the moment

As for spacer I can make one up tomorrow too

any other idea's ??

Post by **GURU** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:42 am

Just remembered but I have tried turning the dizzy afair way so I can't see the timing been the big problem, it is a problem though

Post by **Ralf the RR** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:18 am

I'd start by doing a static timing.
That way you can eliminate that.

As for the starter motor, there is thread about this somewhere.
A quick search found:
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=19405

My 4.4 has a Lucas M45 Rangie starter with no spacers.
The previous thread was about starters breaking with no spacers.
From what I gather, that was a Lucas 3M100PE starter.

Post by **lowbox** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:44 am

Bodge here on Ct's login...

DAS I wouldn't shag around with the Rover starters which are not that hot to begin with. I picked up a brand new gear reduction starter for a P76 here in NZ for $200 after messing around with several bodged versions. Turns the motor twice as fast and bolts up in about 3 minutes - no adaptors spacers etc. Best $200 I ever spent on the old cow.

I have an original P76 starter here that still goes if you are keen to stuff around with it but I think it needs a new solenoid...

While you are down there check the earthing of the starter - needs to be really good and is cheap to replace - half my problems initially were due to dodgy bits of 70's braided earth straps...

g'luck
Bodge

Post by **Bush65** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:15 am

From memory the diameter of the spigot of a p76 starter is larger than rover.

I think I have a p76 starter in the shed somewhere. Been there many years and I dont know what it is like.

Post by **GURU** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:39 pm

Thanks for your help guys

Motor siezed this arvo....something in the bottom end has gone. now trying to decide what to do :(

Post by **J Top** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:58 pm

Thats bad news!
If an external oil pump engine has been sitting for a period of time the oil pump dries out and sometimes will not lift oil.
The factory P5B rover manual states "remove oil pump cover and pack pump with petroleum jelly "aka vasiline.
Red holden V8s also do this sometimes.
J Top

Post by **p76rangie** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:48 pm

You should always prime a new motor. The oil pump drive connects onto the bottom of the distributor. You pull out the distributor and make a shaft that fits on top of the oil pump dive. You connect a electric drill to the shaft and turn over the oil pump for a couple of minutes after you get oil pressure (the drill will slow down a bits when you start to get pressure). If you do not get oil pressure, you can then pull the oil pump apart and fill in it with petroleum jelly and then repeat the priming process.

Post by **up2nogood** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:27 pm

Motor siezed this arvo....something in the bottom end has gone. now trying to decide what to do :(

Man, that sucks.

Scope the 4 sale section, there is a both a reco and a rebuilder 4.4 for sale.

Post by **GURU** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:45 pm

it had oil pressure to begin with

but must have been bugger all as there isn't as much oil inside as there should. Still don't know what siezed. pulled all main bearing caps off and they are all good. must be a piston siezed. I got it to move abit, but still not sure.

I did notice that there were no thrust bearings at all on the crank. no bits of metal or anything floating around so I can only assume they were never there. These motors do run thrust bearings don't they?

Post by **Philip A** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:44 am

Some Rover (so maybe P76) bearing kits have only one main bearing shell with a thrust washer. IE it is only on the top half of the bearing. Have a look into the top half where the thrust face is on the crank. They seem to run fine with a crank that can swing back and forth by up to 100 thou.
regards Philip A

Post by **longy** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:15 am

there was p76 4.4 mtr on ebay last night it was up to $400 not sure of loc was just having a quik look also not sure about finish date sorry cant be of more help
cheers chris

Post by **GURU** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:28 pm

yeah that nmiddle shell bearing doesn't exist. has normal type

has about 4mm of play !!

the piston or gundgon (spelling?) has siezed up due to a lack of oil.

need a new motor now :(

Post by **grungle99** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:57 am

If the motor is sitting for a while - sometimes the hydrolic lifters won't pump back up and therefore wont work properly. Had this problem with the 4.4 before

I run a ring spacer around the 3.5 starter - easy to do - ended up machining the top of a piston and then dowling it to suit.

Timing - I find my 4.4 will idle at major advances and retards - just wont rev - Unless the timing is so far out I would not expect this.

Also agree with the Vaso in the oil pump - only major prob with these motors is they run on nearly no oil pressure - I run an upgrade sandwich block to increase the oil pressure to measurable amounts.

Good luck and hope the new motor is not the only option.

G

Post by **Ralf the RR** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:49 pm

grungle99 wrote:IAlso agree with the Vaso in the oil pump - only major prob with these motors is they run on nearly no oil pressure - I run an upgrade sandwich block to increase the oil pressure to measurable amounts

I don't know what a sandwich block is, but my 79 4.4 has 300KPa at 60KM/h.

Post by **grungle99** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:55 pm

The sandwich block is a spacer that fits in the pump - allowing the use of longer pump gears anbd hence more oil flow.

THere was two different pumps fitted to 4.4 - most had the shorter gears - some late in the run had factory longer gearsd but these are hard to get hold of.

G

Post by **p76rangie** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:45 pm

Most the 4.4's I have seen in Rangies run the Rangie timing cover and oil pump. The longer gears wouldn't be applicable in such cases.

Post by **Aquarangie** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:16 am

What a bastard :bad-words:

Nothing worse after fitting the engine and that happens. Hope you sort out the problem soon.

Trav

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